Why do Asians make better cars?

[Ericlobster]

We all understand that Japan makes great stuff but the recent success of Kia (Korean car btw) has thrown US car manufacturing way to the back of the line.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2016/02/23/asian-carmakers-top-consumer-reports-list-with-a-couple-exceptions/

I remember when Ford and GM were regarded as the best in the world.

What has changed? Is it our education system? The number of students who completed Algebra has declined severely over the years. Yet it increases in Asian countries.

So what if there are tons of resources online like Math.com, StudyPug or Thinkific.

There needs to be a fundamental change in our education system from the ground up or we'll continue to slip. It's getting kind of scary guys. What can we do to start innovating like North Americans use to.

[TM]

What, to you, makes a car "better"?

GM and Ford are still two of the top car manufacturers in terms of sales.

https://www.edmunds.com/industry-cen...ufacturer.html

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...manufacturers/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nikitopo]

Well, Japan is a very old country with a very long tradition. For a big period they had a closed country and civilization, but they managed to open a bit and catch up with the rest of the world. In many areas they became even better than the others. The South Korea is another story, but the Japanese also helped them a lot with their educational system.

The US or Canadian basic education system was never particularly strong. Their system was based mainly on the work of foreign born people. What has changed is that these people are now going back to their own countries and it looks that in future this will become even worse. Check some facts here:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK0Y9j_CGgM"]Dr. Michio Kaku America Has A Secret Weapon - YouTube[/ame]

[Captain Snooze]

@Ericlobster
Do you think you could be any more general in your premiss? Asian cars include, but are not limited to, Lexus LFA and Chery E5. American cars (by which I guess you mean cars originating in the USA) include the Dodge Viper ACR and the Staturn Ion. To say that these cars are judged purely on their country of origin is just.......just not a very good argument.

Your post is reads like it is close to political in nature. tsk tsk.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Ericlobster

We all understand that Japan makes great stuff but the recent success of Kia (Korean car btw) has thrown US car manufacturing way to the back of the line...

I'm sorry but the premise here is flawed.

Both historically but especially currently auto design and manufacturing is a global business that relies on the strengths and advantages of production in nearly all industrialized nations. For this reason cars are rarely produced fully with the skills and labor of one locale, region or sometimes even one continent anymore.

Asia
Thoughts about effective car manufacturing in "Asia" (notably Japan & South Korea) immediately jump to business process improvement techniques ("Lean" and the TPIS (Toyota Process Improvement System)) in Japan and Japanese' companies willingness to compartmentalize nearly every aspect of the vehicle production life cycle is legendary. In S.K. inexpensive labor, a strong infrastructure and favorable trade policies of the last 25 years allowed Daewoo/Hyundai to produce cars for the globe. Design has been imported to SK from Germany only after they've cleaned up their mfg processes and improved supply chains.

You left out new competition from India (TATA) who's acquisitions of Jaguar and Land Rover have brought new energy for both companies. The hard manufacturing push in Asia is coming from China now. Parts production is being moved to Vietnam. Through the next decade these companies will become world players.

Currently the greatest strengths from "Asia" are it's global approach to the mfg business (which it began to develop in the '90s) that have netted continuous ability to produce stylish higher quality budget-to-midrange cars cheaper than most foreign competitors. The majority of auto parts are mfg'd in Asia and will likely continue to be in the future. Another advantage.

U.S. & Italy
Design & Styling have historically been and remain the strengths of Italy (Italdesign, Pininfarina, Bertone, Guigario, Ghia) and the U.S. (many) Transportation design as a field of study is heavily reliant on the big 3 transportation design schools in Michigan (UofM, Lawerence, and CCS). Of course The Art Center in Pasadena, CA is pretty much Juliard for Auto design. Most auto mfgs rely heavily on the talent pipeline coming from the U.S. (including for all Asian mfgs). So many of the cars we love are designed in California. So deep is the pipeline in CA that 15 Auto mfgs have CA studios (including all of the major German, Asian, and North American makes.)

Importantly the most important transportation trends are often identified in North America first and developed and spread throughout the world from there. The large family sedan, the muscle car, modern mini-van, and now the SUV were born in the U.S.A. The U.S. still produces some of the best in the world in these categories. Asia makes impressive models here, but nothing like the U.S. (example Jeep sold over 1.2 million SUVs worldwide in 2016 with another 500K Ram trucks moved for FCA alone.) Additionally FCA, GM and Ford send more highly profitable trucks and SUVs to the world's population than all Asian & European auto mfgs combined.

Germany & the rest of Eurpoe
Long has been and remains the German engineering edge with transportation design. Aside from the VW's diesel issues, Europeans are able to produce luxury performance cars with their own unique identity better than any mfgs in the world. The Japanese may rival Germany's quality in the low and mid-range, but for global mind-share, relatively few people look to Asia for their $100k+ Luxury sedan or super/hypercar (despite the fine examples of cars Asia produces in this range.) Europeans own this category and likely will for the foreseeable future.

Modern cars are produced globally and tailored to local tastes. This is fact. For this reason objectively "Better" is kind of a silly notion if attempting to assign a car some kind of rating based on the location of a company headquarters. The modern day "Japanese" car is likely designed in the U.S. and manufactured in 3 plants worldwide with Chinese parts. There's no shame in that. It's globalization. The inevitable result when the industrial age meets the jet age and the finally the information age. The future will leave little room for ethnocentrism, xenophobia or nationalism with what we buy and where it's from. That day has come and is forever, gone.

[reni]

Lol.... "Asians"

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ3oyo-irJ4"]Asian Car Comparison Guide - YouTube[/ame]

[TommyW]

There was a movie and I can't remember the name but they said Asians make great stuff because they're short and their eyes are closer to the stuff thet're making so the stuff comes out better....

[MuseChaser]

To the original poster...

You're using Consumer Reports as the main source for deciding who makes the best cars? Their incidence-of-repair records, from which they rate each car's reliability, is based almost entirely on customer surveys. Mercedes, BMW, and Audi for decades have consistently ranked quite low in "reliability." If you look at all the pretty red and black dots closely, you'll find that their drivetrains are actually pretty bulletproof. Most of the problems lie in the complicated bells-and-whistles on those cars.

Now... remember... CR's data is based on customer surveys. Who do you think complains more if their new car isn't perfect... someone who just spent $18,000 on a Kia, or $80,000 on a MB/BMW/Audi?

Don't get me wrong.. CR serves a purpose, and I'm glad they're out there. I use them as a reference, but you HAVE to know how to interpret their data, and can't take their stories at face value. When I have to buy something I know nothing about, I turn to them frequently. When I have to buy something I know a great deal about (audio gear, for instance), they are almost always universally wrong about what products provide the best performance. It just depends upon what you care about.

So, yeah, as everyone else has already said, your premise is flawed in the first place. I just wanted to add that your source reference is flawed, too...

Have a nice day!

Best to you,

Barry

[reeves]

I don't care what the magazines or consumer reports say, from my experience, in my family growing up (me, my parents, and my 2 brothers) we've had 1 Ford, 1 Chevy (truck), 3 Dodges (all trucks), 1 Mitsubishi, 5 Hondas, 6 Toyotas, and 1 Subara (my BRZ).

On average, we DID have the LEAST problems with the Hondas and Toyotas. Which made us buy more of them. The Dodges and Chevy was 'ok', but the interiors basically fell apart after a few years (radio knobs, door handles, shift lever, fabric, panels, etc). I don't see myself buying another Chevy or Dodge again.

The first car my dad ever bought was a Ford sedan. I was too little to remember what model it was, but I just remember him cursing that car to death over all the problems it gave him. Sorry Ford, you lost a TON of customers from my family off that one car 40+ years ago. We never came close to even going back to a Ford dealership since.

The 2nd car my dad bought was an '82 Toyota Corona. I only remember it because 10+ years later, I became old enough to remember the cars my parents drove, and it was still running strong (until my uncle wrecked it).

My '94 MR2 N/A lasted me 20+ years (original tranny & engine), and I finally gave it to my brother to use as his DD to work.. but only because I'm tired of dealing with the leaky T-tops.

Personally, I would never buy a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge no matter how 'cool' they design it, or how much horsepower they cram under the hood from the factory. Doesn't matter how "reliable" they claim to be these days, I just feel like I'm being hoodwinked with American cars.. it's a new body covering up the same crappy car my dad cursed at 40+ years ago. Perception is reality, and it's gonna take a few more decades of having a proven track record to convince me to buy American.

[synchromesh]

I am too young to actually be able to described what happened as an adult but I will postulate on answering the OP's question. Although, I may be ridiculed for my theory. In fact, I've never even talked to anyone about it regarding this subject matter.


In the 80's, some Korean and American businessmen got together and thought it might be a good idea to expand globally. What happened was both sides were so culturally far from each other that the only thing they had in common was the church and some sort of missionary, goal. So one thing led to another, and expansion started, while coincidentally, the Japanese were getting taxed and tariffed on a lot of their export products. Not a shxt-load but significant enough. Maybe the Japanese at the time weren't compliant with some Christian ordination.


So(rry) for the rant.


I spoke with a pretty knowledgeable Korean guy(but bad English) who I met at a local church at a dinner party hosted by a Korean gypsy. I mentioned to him that a lot of South-Korean men considered Baby-Boomers, have made a fortune in the last couple decades likely due to the automobile industry. I didn't mention about the 1.2-1.3 fertility rate in South Korea because some people are too dumb and they would take it literally.


In 2009, a SsangYong Motor Company factory, symbolically had a 77 day standoff.


The Book of Genesis isn't the prettiest story but conflicts still continue to this day in the Far East.

[Ericlobster]

Great information guys. However, you guys are focusing on the present situation. I'm referring to the future. The very near future if I may add.

@TM - Toyota leads in Global sales and Hyundai has surpassed Mercedes.

http://focus2move.com/world-cars-brand-ranking/

@nikitopo - 100% Agreed. I share the exact same concern. I do think most end up staying but yeah, the trend of going back (Even by Indian students) has started.

@Captain Snooze - Yes I'm being general. I'm not talking about specific models but the actual sole brand that they represent.

@DAEMANO - India is not a competitor in the automobile field in any shape or form. TATA cars are not making a dent in the global car sales anytime soon. They make industrial vehicles (Truck, etc) mostly anyways. I'm a big fan of Muscle cars myself but I can assure you nobody thinks US cars are aesthetically pleasing. They are more famous around the world for power. I can't believe you put them in the same bracket as Italian cars. That's pushing it bud come on - As far as Germany and car manufacturing goes, that ship is sinking faster than ever. With Mercedes, BMW coming out with new models every year to appeal to the middle class, you think these brands will still be considered luxury? The prestige level is declining real fast. Mercedes is not luxury anymore.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle23501719/

Bottom line is Asia is on the come up. Things are shifting. The sooner we face this reality the better.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Ericlobster

Great information guys. However, you guys are focusing on the present situation. I'm referring to the future. The very near future if I may add...

@DAEMANO - India is not a competitor in the automobile field in any shape or form. TATA cars are not making a dent in the global car sales anytime soon. They make industrial vehicles (Truck, etc) mostly anyways.

You do realize that India is in Asia right? You understand that Indians refer to themselves as Asians, and share a thousand mile border with China & Nepal right? Point is, that multi-national mega corps like TATA have resuscitated both Jaguar and Land Rover when both companies had been lost for decades. This is evidence that it's not just Japan & South Korea that can produce desirable automobiles.

I'm a big fan of Muscle cars myself but I can assure you nobody thinks US cars are aesthetically pleasing.

Once again, I think you missed the point. I'll try to be more clear. All automobile manufacturers design their cars in the United States or with designers educated in U.S. design schools. This includes every major mfg in both Japan and South Korea.

They are more famous around the world for power. I can't believe you put them in the same bracket as Italian cars. That's pushing it bud come on -

See above and you do know what FCA stands for right?Chew on that for a while. FCA is a great example of the kind of globalism that nets cars designed and built in several nations. Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Ram, Jeep, Chrysler. Same owner. Italian & American all at once. You also know that Lamborghini & Bugatti are both owned by VW. I'm sure you know this. I'm sorry bud, the idea of one nation cars is a concept that barely exists anymore.

As far as Germany and car manufacturing goes, that ship is sinking faster than ever. With Mercedes, BMW coming out with new models every year to appeal to the middle class, you think these brands will still be considered luxury? The prestige level is declining real fast. Mercedes is not luxury anymore.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle23501719/

Bottom line is Asia is on the come up. Things are shifting. The sooner we face this reality the better.

So MBZ is no longer a luxury marque but Toyota <cough> I mean Lexus, Kia and Hyundai are? This is kind of laughable. In any case, do you have any idea where the cars you think of as Asian (by your definition Japanese & S.K. only of course) are designed, manufactured, and sourced from? I doubt it. No disrespect, but you kind of sound weeaboo-ish. Otaku much?

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by reeves

I don't care what the magazines or consumer reports say, from my experience, in my family growing up (me, my parents, and my 2 brothers) we've had 1 Ford, 1 Chevy (truck), 3 Dodges (all trucks), 1 Mitsubishi, 5 Hondas, 6 Toyotas, and 1 Subara (my BRZ).

On average, we DID have the LEAST problems with the Hondas and Toyotas. Which made us buy more of them. The Dodges and Chevy was 'ok', but the interiors basically fell apart after a few years (radio knobs, door handles, shift lever, fabric, panels, etc). I don't see myself buying another Chevy or Dodge again.

The first car my dad ever bought was a Ford sedan. I was too little to remember what model it was, but I just remember him cursing that car to death over all the problems it gave him. Sorry Ford, you lost a TON of customers from my family off that one car 40+ years ago. We never came close to even going back to a Ford dealership since.

The 2nd car my dad bought was an '82 Toyota Corona. I only remember it because 10+ years later, I became old enough to remember the cars my parents drove, and it was still running strong (until my uncle wrecked it).

My '94 MR2 N/A lasted me 20+ years (original tranny & engine), and I finally gave it to my brother to use as his DD to work.. but only because I'm tired of dealing with the leaky T-tops.

Personally, I would never buy a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge no matter how 'cool' they design it, or how much horsepower they cram under the hood from the factory. Doesn't matter how "reliable" they claim to be these days, I just feel like I'm being hoodwinked with American cars.. it's a new body covering up the same crappy car my dad cursed at 40+ years ago. Perception is reality, and it's gonna take a few more decades of having a proven track record to convince me to buy American.

There lies the start of your families automobile problems ........ your dad should have bought a Chevy ......


humfrz

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by synchromesh

I am too young to actually be able to described what happened as an adult ..............

Ya lost me from the get go, there, synchromesh ........


humfrz