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GR86 General Topics General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 08-10-2020, 05:53 PM   #1513
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Fingers crossed they don't add a ugly spoiler like they did on the BRZ version of the 86
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Old 08-10-2020, 06:44 PM   #1514
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I would prefer a larger displacement na motor over a turbo or supercharged setup. Flashy specs and racy emblems usually mean expensive repairs once the warranty runs out. As a matter of fact I wish the seemingly taller hood was hiding a inline Toyota
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Old 08-11-2020, 12:15 AM   #1515
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I would prefer a larger displacement na motor over a turbo or supercharged setup. Flashy specs and racy emblems usually mean expensive repairs once the warranty runs out. As a matter of fact I wish the seemingly taller hood was hiding a inline Toyota
that would be nice, but no real inlines right now that Toyota makes that have the same concept, high revving N/A. At least not that I can think of.
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Old 08-12-2020, 06:27 PM   #1516
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As a matter of fact I wish the seemingly taller hood was hiding a inline Toyota
A forlorn hope since the mkII development is allegedly all Subaru, with less Toyota involvement than the mkI. Same platform allegedly, which means another Subaru boxer 4 is all but guaranteed.
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Old 08-12-2020, 06:32 PM   #1517
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A forlorn hope since the mkII development is allegedly all Subaru, with less Toyota involvement than the mkI. Same platform allegedly, which means another Subaru boxer 4 is all but guaranteed.
If is all subaru I'm glad I own the first gen
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Old 08-12-2020, 09:18 PM   #1518
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If is all subaru I'm glad I own the first gen

Kind reminder that Subaru convinced Toyota to build a sports car after letting them drive the first BRZ test mule:



Toyota went into the partnership wanting to make an AWD crossover.
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Old 08-12-2020, 09:26 PM   #1519
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If is all subaru I'm glad I own the first gen
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Old 08-12-2020, 09:31 PM   #1520
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Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
Kind reminder that Subaru convinced Toyota to build a sports car after letting them drive the first BRZ test mule:

Toyota went into the partnership wanting to make an AWD crossover.
Huh? That's the opposite of what happened. Subaru was dragged kicking and screaming to the rwd platform.
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Old 08-12-2020, 10:04 PM   #1521
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Huh? That's the opposite of what happened. Subaru was dragged kicking and screaming to the rwd platform.
subaru had built up a solid marketing campaign over the previous 5-10 years that everything they sold was AWD. i remember laughing at the first subaru commericial that came out after the brz debuted in 2012 and the AWD byline was suddenly missing.
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Old 08-12-2020, 11:56 PM   #1522
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Huh? That's the opposite of what happened. Subaru was dragged kicking and screaming to the rwd platform.
Yep. Especially when Toyota said to have a NA engine.
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:35 AM   #1523
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im fine with the subaruness:

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Old 08-13-2020, 08:08 AM   #1524
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(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vides990 View Post
Huh? That's the opposite of what happened. Subaru was dragged kicking and screaming to the rwd platform.




UPDATE: I may have interpreted the original article wrong, see here: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...postcount=1535



Subarus account of the early development is very different to the marketing story that Toyota decided to dream up and publish. Ill find the source materials for my claim, itll take me a while though because its buried somewhere in 2011.



Basically Subaru had already built their first iteration of the AS1 chassis when talks with Toyota on starting the partnership were happening. Thats the black ugly mule i posted earlier. -This chassis was probably commissioned by Toyota and built by Subaru to aid Tada's argument for a sports car over an SUV-



The whole story on how Toyota decided the styling of the car also has a massive caveat to it: they styled the car around the already completed chassis and hard points, so the shape of the car is much more defined by the shape of the unibody than Toyota wanted to admit. Toyota did not design this car from a blank slate, they draped sheet metal over the Subaru chassis (modified Impreza chassis really). The more I find about early development quotes from both sides the more I am convinced the whole 50/50 effort on designing the car is a load of Toyota marketing BS. From what I found the earliest material seems to indicate that the lionshare of the engineering design and testing was done by Subaru.


Heres a link that has some sparse info on the early development, But its mostly focused on the driving impression of the final prototypes. Ill keep looking for the article I mentioned. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ototype-drive/



Another one:
Quote:
But whose car is it really? Senior project general manager Masuda says that only Subaru personnel were in the engineering bullpens and at the test track during the cars three-year gestation. How often did Toyota check in? Meetings with Toyota were always necessity based and not regular, Masuda says, meaning that Toyota did not drive the project from the back seat.



Masuda goes even further to assert that the engineering of the AS1 dictated its styling, rather than vice versa as with most sports cars. Toyotas designers shaped the body but only after the hard points of the chassis, powertrain, and passenger compartment were fixed by Subaru



We delivered the best chassis we could, he says, and then the styling of  the car was basically [Toyotas] role.

Last edited by Yoshoobaroo; 08-13-2020 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 08-13-2020, 09:02 AM   #1525
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Subaru’s account of the early development is very different to the marketing story that Toyota decided to dream up and publish. I’ll find the source materials for my claim, it’ll take me a while though because it’s buried somewhere in 2011.
No one said that Toyota designed the car from a blank slate, but they were definitely the driving force. Subaru didn't have the money for the required R&D of a new sports platform. People could recall Subaru filling back in 2008 an application under Chaper 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code. It was the same year where Toyota decided to nearly double the stakes in Subaru and agreed to work on a RWD sports car and other hybrid projects.

https://www.media.subaru-global.com/en/news/1220
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...aru-parent-fhi


And as far it concerns the engineering, I could say that the engine was basically redesigned by Toyota with a bit of help from Yamaha. Transmission and rear differential is also Toyota with basically same differential part numbers used in Lexus cars. Same about the interior and exterior design which was driven by Toyota.
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Old 08-13-2020, 09:55 AM   #1526
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Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
Subaru’s account of the early development is very different to the marketing story that Toyota decided to dream up and publish. I’ll find the source materials for my claim, it’ll take me a while though because it’s buried somewhere in 2011.

Basically Subaru had already built their first iteration of the AS1 chassis when talks with Toyota on starting the partnership were happening. That’s the black ugly mule i posted earlier.

The whole story on how Toyota decided the styling of the car also has a massive caveat to it: they styled the car around the already completed chassis and hard points, so the shape of the car is much more defined by the shape of the unibody than Toyota wanted to admit. Toyota did not design this car from a blank slate, they draped sheet metal over Subarus new chassis (modified Impreza chassis really). The more I find about early development quotes from both sides the more I am convinced the whole 50/50 effort on designing the car is a load of Toyota marketing BS. From what I found the earliest material seems to indicate that the lionshare of the engineering design and testing was done by Subaru. The only reason the automatic even exist is because Toyota wanted it, Subaru had no interest in making an automatic version of this car. Between that and the secondary Port injection that they forced onto the car (don’t get me wrong, I LIKE the dual injection), I don’t think Toyota had a whole lot of input On the mechanical design of the car.

Here’s a link that has some sparse info on the early development, But it’s mostly focused on the driving impression of the final prototypes. I’ll keep looking for the article I mentioned. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ototype-drive/

Another one:
@ichitaka05 You care to comment on this?
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