Jason Cammisa 2022 BRZ Hagerty Video

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by nextcar

Please - please - please I hope they do not go to 3.9 just to improve 0-60 times.... And yes, I do understand that 3.9 might be an advantage for some people on some tracks. I am running 4.56 on my 2013, and I think 4.3 would be wonderful on the 2022.

If you only care about 0-10mph, yeah, gears are the shiznit! Overall acceleration performance, it's not a big deal. Yeah, my Cayman was geared super-tall, but as I wasn't launching the car from zero, ever, on the street or at the track, and it didn't bother me. I'd just still be in 4th gear on the street where in the BRZ i'd already be in 6th... If you're not upshifting at redline every gear, nothing's keeping you from just staying in lower gears for longer with taller gearing...

Gears do not magic you any more power/weight. You'll have a bit more thrust at some speeds, but at some speeds you'll have way less motive thrust due to having to be in the next taller gear. Guaranteed your car pulled *way* harder from 32mph with the 4.1 gears vs. 4.56!

But anyway, if your '13 was geared way too tall for you from the factory, then most likely the '22 will be as well...

I never thought the '13-'16 were geared "too tall", and when I bought my '17, the "better" 4.3 gears had zero to do with my decision vs. buying a used earlier model. FWIW the 4.3 gears gave the '17 a bare 0.1s advantage from 0-30 and NO advantage in acceleration from there on, despite more power!

For *most* of us, gears are WAY overrated. IMHO!

[ermax]

Originally Posted by ZDan

If you only care about 0-10mph, yeah, gears are the shiznit! Overall acceleration performance, it's not a bit deal. Yeah, my Cayman was geared super-tall, but as I wasn't launching the car from zero, ever, on the street or at the track, and it didn't bother me. I'd just still be in 4th gear on the street where in the BRZ i'd already be in 6th... If you're not upshifting at redline every gear, nothing's keeping you from just staying in lower gears for longer with taller gearing...

Gears do not magic you any more power/weight. You'll have a bit more thrust at some speeds, but at some speeds you'll have way less motive thrust due to having to be in the next taller gear. Guaranteed your car pulled *way* harder from 32mph with the 4.1 gears vs. 4.56!

But anyway, if your '13 was geared way too tall for you from the factory, then most likely the '22 will be as well...

I never thought the '13-'16 were geared "too tall", and when I bought my '17, the "better" 4.3 gears had zero to do with my decision vs. buying a used earlier model. FWIW the 4.3 gears gave the '17 a bare 0.1s advantage from 0-30 and NO advantage in acceleration from there on, despite more power!

For *most* of us, gears are WAY overrated. IMHO!

For me the short gears are more about fun factor. I drove a Ford GT with 1300HP once and never got it out 2nd which ran to 92mph if I recall. Yeah you could short shift the hell out of it but I find it more fun to be able to drive it like you stole it and shifting at 2000RPM isn’t what I would call driving it like I stole it, even with 1300hp.

In the Twins you can rapidly run through the first 5 gears shifting at 3500rpm and look down feeling like you should be doing 65 and your only doing 40mph. Hahaha. If they went to far in the other direction I think it would seriously impact the fun factor.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by ermax

For me the short gears are more about fun factor. I drove a Ford GT with 1300HP once and never got it out 2nd which ran to 92mph if I recall. Yeah you could short shift the hell out of it but I find it more fun to be able to drive it like you stole it and shifting at 2000RPM isn’t what I would call driving it like I stole it, even with 1300hp.

Nobody's MAKING you shift at 2000rpm! YOU decide when to upshift.

In the Twins you can rapidly run through the first 5 gears shifting at 3500rpm and look down feeling like you should be doing 65 and your only doing 40mph. Hahaha. If they went to far in the other direction I think it would seriously impact the fun factor.

AGAIN, taller gears does NOT mean "low rpm"! YOU decide when to upshift. Whether you have 3.9 gears or 4.88 gears.

[Sport-Tech]

^ True but the point is it's more fun having the ability to do a couple of very high-rev shifts before reaching the speed limit than it is being forced by a car's long gear ratios to shift at 3000 rpm. This is a sports car!

[ermax]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Nobody's MAKING you shift at 2000rpm! YOU decide when to upshift.

AGAIN, taller gears does NOT mean "low rpm"! YOU decide when to upshift. Whether you have 3.9 gears or 4.88 gears.

You couldn’t have possibly missed my point anymore than you did. My point is, shifting is fun and the short gears allow you to run through the gears rapidly without, A: having to short shift or B: Having to run high speeds.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

^ True but the point is it's more fun having the ability to do a couple of very high-rev shifts before reaching the speed limit than it is being forced by a car's long gear ratios to shift at 3000 rpm. This is a sports car!

Exactly, in my Ford GT example you would be speeding on most roads by simply redlining 1st gear. If I recall 1st was ~70mph and 2nd was ~90mph. It’s been about 15 years since I drove that car so my memory could be wrong. I just remember the gearing being ridiculous.

Looked it up.
1st: 67mph
2nd: 98mph
3rd: 136mph

So yeah, kind of lame IMO.

[ZDan]

No one buys a Ford GT so they can have to shift a buncha times before hitting 50mph...

Shifting is a means to an end. I want gearing to be optimized to minimize time lost shifting. Of course I want a precise shift mechanism with good feel that makes it easy to shift quickly. But I don't want to *have* to shift more often than necessary to stay in the engine's powerband and extract max performance from the engine.

I think they did a good job with trans and diff gearing for the 1st gen. It stands to reason that the '22 will be geared a bit taller given 20% more torque. It should keep the tight/close transmission ratios as it is still a peaky n.a. engine.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

It all depends on whether they tweaked the gear ratios or not.

I assume that would cost a fair bit more than just a final drive change. And also make parts less interchangeable as replacements.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by ZDan

No one buys a Ford GT so they can have to shift a buncha times before hitting 50mph...

Shifting is a means to an end. I want gearing to be optimized to minimize time lost shifting. Of course I want a precise shift mechanism with good feel that makes it easy to shift quickly. But I don't want to *have* to shift more often than necessary to stay in the engine's powerband and extract max performance from the engine.

I think they did a good job with trans and diff gearing for the 1st gen. It stands to reason that the '22 will be geared a bit taller given 20% more torque. It should keep the tight/close transmission ratios as it is still a peaky n.a. engine.

Agreed overall. But as we've discussed in the past when it comes to gearing - this car was geared for the fun aspect, not for the "optimal" aspect. At least that's the way I see it, as I have lots of fun shifting. Either way it's a subject to move on from, as we still have to wait and see what they've done. I'm sure a good decision was made no matter what, as the rest of the car's fun aspect seems to have been preserved and improved for the new gen.

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by Blighty

I assume that would cost a fair bit more than just a final drive change. And also make parts less interchangeable as replacements.

Not really more expensive and I doubt they care about parts being interchangeable with the first generation car.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by weederr33

God that wheel gap lol

I'd prefer having a symmetrical wheel gap that I can stick my fist in rather than an asymmetrical gap but closed at the top. The only way to fully close the gap "properly" would be to get larger diameter wheels/tires, not just lowering the car.

Again, just my personal preference.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

Not really more expensive and I doubt they care about parts being interchangeable with the first generation car.

Its a unique transmission not shared with other platforms, and while it might be somewhat of a derivative of an existing one, I think this fact alone means in gear setting will not change.

The dif is different though, as the final drive is changed easily.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Blighty

Its a unique transmission not shared with other platforms, and while it might be somewhat of a derivative of an existing one, I think this fact alone means in gear setting will not change.

The dif is different though, as the final drive is changed easily.

The question remains as to whether the current transmission can reliably handle the extra torque of the new engine without a revision (plus have enough in reserve to cope with typical aftermarket tunes or power mods). The history of the fragile-as-glass transmission on the ND is a cautionary tale in that regard - it's had 5 revisions so far to address its propensity for grenading gearsets.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

The question remains as to whether the current transmission can reliably handle the extra torque of the new engine without a revision (plus have enough in reserve to cope with typical aftermarket tunes or power mods). The history of the fragile-as-glass transmission on the ND is a cautionary tale in that regard - it's had 5 revisions so far to address its propensity for grenading gearsets.

http://kaizen-factor.com/the-brz-fr-...e-know-so-far/

Just trying to find out the specifications of the transmisison used and i came across this website talking about the transmission in the twins. Seems like a variant of the AZ6 used in the Nissan Silvia was rated at 202 lb/ft, while all other variants are suspected to be capable of 124-163lb/ft.

In the 2022 i would suspect they'd have to beef it up to get to the 185lb/ft threshhold and it may not have alot of additional capacity after that (Im suspecting the upper limit is around the 200lb/ft mark).

OTherwise they'd have to go with a stronger transmission.