Jason Cammisa 2022 BRZ Hagerty Video

[Red-86]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

Thanks for posting, what a fun video!

But... piped in artificial engine sounds.... are the end of the world. I HATE synthetic electronic engine sounds.

Most people, both automotive journos and normal people, also hate it and it is super annoying everyone is doing it now. Not only is it BS fakery, but almost none of them sound any good. I mean, if you're going to play fake engine sounds, can't you make it sound good? Just play the exhaust note from an old F1 car through the speakers or something!

I might be crazy, but unless there's a way to turn that off (whether by factory option or aftermarket hack), it would be a deal-breaker for me.

It's not a deal breaker for me (my current Z has it too), but it's definitely on the 'demerit' side of the ledger. Just unnecessary. Why not work on improving the real sound of the intake and exhaust instead? Companies like Yamaha can do some spectacular things with acoustic technology and design. I suppose hoping for that kind of real sound enhancement on a budget sportscar is too much, but still... I could live with simple old real engine noise, and if I want more, I'll add it with real bolt-ons in the aftermarket.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Red-86

I mean, if you're going to play fake engine sounds, can't you make it sound good? Just play the exhaust note from an old F1 car through the speakers or something!

Renault actually went that route on one of its hot hatches, it was demo'd on Top Gear years ago. It was hilarious, with one of the options (there were several) you could make it sound like it had a v10 under the hood.

I'm sure the reason for shaping the engine's sound digitally rather than through mechanical design is all about the bottom line, the costs for the design, materials, and production of even a sound tube these days would far exceed those for a software sound app. Personally if it's a choice between the unappealing sonic character of the current engine and a more pleasing if artificially augmented sound I will live with the latter.

[joro2]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

I dont think the FA20 sounds particularly great, but its not awful.

Agree.
I’ll take it a step further and say I like the sound a lot, it has a unique “character”.
The FA-20 gets way more hate than it actually deserves.

[Lantanafrs2]

Don't worry guys! There are ways to raise the rev limit so you, yes you can find out why Subaru didn't!

[Irace86.2.0]

I like the sound of the car, but I have headers, catback and lots of boost. I have heard a lot worse from 2L engines.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by joro2

Agree.
I’ll take it a step further and say I like the sound a lot, it has a unique “character”.
The FA-20 gets way more hate than it actually deserves.

I noticed you have a 2017. I didn't like the stock sound of my 2013 much (even with a Perrin catback), but I actually enjoy it now with the 2017 OEM header and intake sound tube delete. From 4000-7400, it sounds really good IMO.

[Deslock]

I agree with his comments about not getting a turbo. However, his engine torque / weight comparison raised an eyebrow:

At every single engine speed above 2000 RPM, the new BRZ has a small but significant advantage. Meaning it will pull ever so slightly harder than the Miata.

The new BRZ reportedly redlines at 7000 while the ND2 redlines at 7500. (edit: this article incorrectly states "Peak power arrives at this new version's slightly lower redline of 7,000 rpm", but the article's interior photo shows 7500)

Also, he based his comparison a on crude preliminary marketing plot. Not criticizing him for that (we've all bench raced), but it's worth noting that what we get in the real-world could be quite different.

Lastly, complaints about the torque dip are overblown, in my opinion (though obviously it's nice to see them smooth it out a bit). Of course, I'm one of the few who liked the drift-happy Primacy HPs, so what do I know?

[Sport-Tech]

If Toyota and Subaru are thinking straight, the gearing on the new model will remain as-is, rather than using a taller final drive ratio. By keeping the current ratio the performance gain from the new engine will not get diluted - which is important, given all the complaints about low power and slow acceleration piled on the current model. Choosing to use a longer ratio would be a very poor marketing decision.

The mid-cycle refresh brought a shorter final drive ratio to improve performance, and there's no feasible reason for Toyota and Subaru to reverse course now. Any improvement in fuel economy a taller ratio might offer would be marginal (and arguably not of importance to this buyer segment). And given the minuscule contribution of BRZ/86 sales to the companies' overall vehicle production that improvement would make no real difference to their fleet mileage numbers anyways.

[LimitedSlip]

The electronic exhaust sounds would almost certainly have some interconnection or perhaps even be built into the head unit. So:

1. Will replacing the factory head unit neuter the electronic exhaust?

2. Will the electronic exhaust create any problems when replacing the head unit?

And, of course, there is no way to know at this point, just thinking out loud.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Deslock

The new BRZ reportedly redlines at 7000 while the ND2 redlines at 7500.

New BRZ makes *peak power* at 7000rpm, redline is up 100 to 7500rpm.

228hp BRZ at ~13 lb/hp should be a few ticks quicker than 181hp Miata at ~14 lb/hp.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by ZDan

New BRZ makes *peak power* at 7000rpm, redline is up 100 to 7500rpm.

228hp BRZ at ~13 lb/hp should be a few ticks quicker than 181hp Miata at ~14 lb/hp.

Yep. Was going by this article, which states:

Peak power arrives at this new version's slightly lower redline of 7,000 rpm

But the same article also has a photo of the tach showing 7500 (and other articles mention 7500). So The Drive's article text must be wrong, and never mind my comment about redline and gearing.

Still, until the car is released and tested, we won't know how much faster it'll be (a few tenths in the quarter mile wouldn't surprise me).

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Deslock

But the same article also has a photo of the tach showing 7500 (and other articles mention 7500). So The Drive's article text must be wrong, and never mind my comment about redline and gearing.

Somebody in marketing confused peak power rpm with redline, it's still on their website here:
"The 2.4-liter naturally aspirated engine redlines at 7,000 RPM and delivers a 15-percent increase in torque."

Also, 184/156 = 18% increase in peak torque, but as displacement increase suggests it's up by 20% throughout most of the rev range, and less bumpy.

Still, until the car is released and tested, we won't know how much faster it'll be (a few tenths in the quarter mile wouldn't surprise me).

We have a pretty good idea, should be good for 98-99 in the 1/4...

[Dake]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Lastly, complaints about the torque dip are overblown, in my opinion (though obviously it's nice to see them smooth it out a bit). Of course, I'm one of the few who liked the drift-happy Primacy HPs, so what do I know?

Maybe it got better in later models, but I always thought it was impossible to miss. When you were accelerating it felt like you let your foot off the gas. I drove my 2013 that way for ages until I finally did the OFT E85 tune and it was like a whole new car. When I had to undo the tune briefly it was a shocking reminder of just how bad that dip was. I put the tune back on as soon as I could.

I understood why it was there (my gas mileage now demonstrates its loss), but it was still rough.

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

If Toyota and Subaru are thinking straight, the gearing on the new model will remain as-is, rather than using a taller final drive ratio. By keeping the current ratio the performance gain from the new engine will not get diluted - which is important, given all the complaints about low power and slow acceleration piled on the current model. Choosing to use a longer ratio would be a very poor marketing decision.

The mid-cycle refresh brought a shorter final drive ratio to improve performance, and there's no feasible reason for Toyota and Subaru to reverse course now. Any improvement in fuel economy a taller ratio might offer would be marginal (and arguably not of importance to this buyer segment). And given the minuscule contribution of BRZ/86 sales to the companies' overall vehicle production that improvement would make no real difference to their fleet mileage numbers anyways.

Speak for yourself there; one of the things I've always appreciated is the combination of fun driving and decent mileage for day to day living. The rest of the gearing is fine, but I've always wanted sixth gear to be taller. Sixth gear is a cruising gear. It never made sense to me that it turns the same RPM in 6th at 70 as my 30 year old Celica does in 5th.

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

If Toyota and Subaru are thinking straight, the gearing on the new model will remain as-is, rather than using a taller final drive ratio.

A taller 6th gear would be welcome. I agree that they should not touch 1~5, but with the added low-end torque, running at 2700 or so @ 60mph in 6th is overkill. Not sure what if any milage gains they would see if it was in the 2~2400 range. Regardless, the larger engine will make short-shifting around town less of a pain for those who want to maximize fuel economy.