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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 01-18-2021, 03:57 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Westen86 View Post
What is the shortcoming of this engine to not make 240+ crank hp in NA trim? Cams? I mean, dual injectors, VVT, 12.5:1.
Assuming 15-20% drivetrain loss full bolt on and tune is probably right about 240 crank.
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Old 01-18-2021, 04:34 PM   #226
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What are you so upset for?
Who said I was upset?

I'm giving (well deserved) harsh criticism. Does that clear it up for you? Maybe don't be so sensitive?
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Old 01-18-2021, 04:37 PM   #227
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Who said I was upset?

I'm giving (well deserved) harsh criticism. Does that clear it up for you? Maybe don't be so sensitive?
Maybe dont be so ungrateful and ignorant of a subject?
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Old 01-18-2021, 04:44 PM   #228
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Maybe dont be so ungrateful and ignorant of a subject?
Haha "ungrateful"?

1. I dont owe them any gratitude
2. I pointed out (among many) so key flaws in their approach.

Go buy it and stick it on your car, we'll be sure to catch your thread when its the apparent disappointmet to you that it clearly is.

Why are you so compelled to take random feedback on the internet so personally?

How about this, why not counter my position with some form of insightful thought(s) of your own on the subject rather than white-knighting for some random account? Oh, that's right, that would be the logical thing to do now wouldn't it?
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Old 01-18-2021, 04:55 PM   #229
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Haha "ungrateful"?

1. I dont owe them any gratitude
2. I pointed out (among many) so key flaws in their approach.

Go buy it and stick it on your car, we'll be sure to catch your thread when its the apparent disappointmet to you that it clearly is.

Why are you so compelled to take random feedback on the internet so personally?

How about this, why not counter my position with some form of insightful thought(s) of your own on the subject rather than white-knighting for some random account? Oh, that's right, that would be the logical thing to do now wouldn't it?

Your initial comment in this thread was in response to a post well over a year old. If you have read through the thread all the way you would see almost every point you have touched on, has already been posted. Probably in a more tasteful manner.



I have no dog in this fight, but honestly it would be nice to see posts about the actual facts of what the intake can OR can't do. Instead it's already getting buried in a dog pile of garbage.
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Old 01-18-2021, 05:04 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by czellers View Post
Haha "ungrateful"?

1. I dont owe them any gratitude
2. I pointed out (among many) so key flaws in their approach.

Go buy it and stick it on your car, we'll be sure to catch your thread when its the apparent disappointmet to you that it clearly is.

Why are you so compelled to take random feedback on the internet so personally?

How about this, why not counter my position with some form of insightful thought(s) of your own on the subject rather than white-knighting for some random account? Oh, that's right, that would be the logical thing to do now wouldn't it?
How was their approach flawed?
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Old 01-18-2021, 05:10 PM   #231
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Your initial comment in this thread was in response to a post well over a year old. If you have read through the thread all the way you would see almost every point you have touched on, has already been posted. Probably in a more tasteful manner.



I have no dog in this fight, but honestly it would be nice to see posts about the actual facts of what the intake can OR can't do. Instead it's already getting buried in a dog pile of garbage.
Like you said "almost every point".. ive added value as it pertains to the context and thought process involved.

If I touched on things common/redundant to other posts in this 18 page thread, I guess I apologize.. its odd to focus on that though, versus the original thought(s). Oh well. Status quo for the internet i suppose..
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Old 01-18-2021, 05:12 PM   #232
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3) The community at large seems to emphatically condemn aftermarket intakes, so what was the point of throwing all that R&D at a part the community (NA especially), would seem, to be hell bent against modifying?
Most of the comments on intake not being worth it has to do with aftermarket CAI, not the manifold.

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Right, ok. so its somewhat of a consensus on the OEM airbox/snorkel being far superior than aftermarket intakes (at least thats what ive seen on this forum). Having said that, why would anyone assume that since the OEM airbox/snorkel is better than aftermarket options, that an aftermarket intake manifold would somehow bet better than OEM?
It is not that the OEM is better, it is that you are spending 250-400 bucks on something with marginal gains, big difference. You can get most of the gains from just a drop in filter without having to have the MAF scaling fixed.
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Old 01-18-2021, 05:18 PM   #233
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How was their approach flawed?
If the OEM intake manifold and intake system were designed and engineered in tandem, why would it be logical to assume (without vetted results/research driven investigative efforts yo identify suboptimal air flows/air volumes etc in the stock manifold)? Remember, we are talking about one of the most dynamic, ciritcal and adaptive systems of the engine. A simple change in air volume/density/velocity is certainly (according to multiple sources in this forum) grounds for advanced tuning and MAF rescaling etc.. thats just one.

If any of that seems way off base.. im all ears and open to discussion and likewise criticism.

I'm suggesting they took a sales oriented approach vs a real comprehensive engineering approach. But, thats MY OPINION, and thus the grounds for much of my criticism.
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Old 01-18-2021, 06:02 PM   #234
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If the OEM intake manifold and intake system were designed and engineered in tandem, why would it be logical to assume (without vetted results/research driven investigative efforts yo identify suboptimal air flows/air volumes etc in the stock manifold)? Remember, we are talking about one of the most dynamic, ciritcal and adaptive systems of the engine. A simple change in air volume/density/velocity is certainly (according to multiple sources in this forum) grounds for advanced tuning and MAF rescaling etc.. thats just one.

If any of that seems way off base.. im all ears and open to discussion and likewise criticism.

I'm suggesting they took a sales oriented approach vs a real comprehensive engineering approach. But, thats MY OPINION, and thus the grounds for much of my criticism.
All the na optimists and many bullshitters were looking for another performance mod. Racerx responded. Gains aren't great but they're there. A lot of effort went into it. Subaru took a comprehensive engineering approach. That's why it's so hard to improve upon
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Old 01-18-2021, 06:28 PM   #235
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All the na optimists and many bullshitters were looking for another performance mod. Racerx responded. Gains aren't great but they're there. A lot of effort went into it. Subaru took a comprehensive engineering approach. That's why it's so hard to improve upon
I would agree, and that last part is the entire premise of my position.

To hell with the outcome(s), its about the approach.
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Old 01-18-2021, 07:50 PM   #236
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Well this has become entertaining. I think Racer X has been overly transparent with their iterative process. I believe based on the resources they had at hand they did a good job. Suggesting that their design process was based around a quick buck rather than trying to create a niche product to fill a hole in the market is very presumptuous. That said they are a business and they don't make products for shits and giggles, they make products to turn a profit to, no doubt, feed themselves and their family.

For me personally the manifold doesn't offer what I am looking for but for others it may well. Thankfully due to their transparency I know this rather than having dished out money on a dream. To my thinking if they were to advertise the manifold as having X and Y gains in torque and power without the demonstration of iterations and without the resulting torque curves it would be a money grab and should be called out as such.

As a consumer having a broad range of choices is good and we should encourage more companies to develop intake manifolds. Especially if they can show the resulting changes to the torque curve like we have here. If you don't see the point of trying to develop products to improve NA power delivery then you won't understand why this was made in the first place.
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Old 01-18-2021, 08:16 PM   #237
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Yikes. . This went left field in no time lol. I hope someone can give some numbers after getting a pro tune to see how much was made before and after stock.

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Old 01-18-2021, 08:22 PM   #238
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Surprised that nobody has mentioned the other benefits- you can fit your hand under it, less of a heat trap, no nonsense ports for vacuum leaks..
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