tS Track Day Pads - Advice/Insight Requested

[J1Avs]

Hello All —

I’ve read plenty of threads that opinions on pads can be a tough ask, but I also haven’t found much information for those of us running the stock Brembos, and definitely not any information on those of us with a tS.

I’m done some AutoCross and TrackCross events this past year on the stock set-up and they held up great. Excellent bite, and really no complaints all around, BUT now I’ve done a few more modifications (FI), and have two big weekend long track events coming up in April and May (GridLife at Summit Point and HyperFest at VIR), I want to make sure I get a proper brake setup and don’t set myself up for failure. I’m primarily concerned about VIR given the long straights into real slow turns. Either way, for both events I’ll be running HPDE-1/beginner.

For background, I’m running stock tS wheels (18x7.5) w/ the stock Pilot Sport 4s (215/40/18). I also have a JRSC C30 kit w/supporting mods making 275whp and 200 ft-lbs. And of course, the brembos up front and in the rear.

I’m been getting competing recommendations: Hawk DTC-60’s, Hawk HP+’s, Carbotech XP8’s, and Carbotech XP10’s. Obviously open to any and all options.

I’m fine with doing the pad swaps at home or at the track, given the Brembos are an easy swap, but ideally it would be a pad I could drive an hour or so home without issue, and would last a few track weekends. I don’t daily the car either, except for a weekend cruise here and there.

I also plan on upgrading to stainless brake lines and better fluid (likely the Motul RBF-660). Any advice on the fluids would be greatly appreciated too.

Appreciate the input everyone! Trying to do this as smart and safe as possible, and I know you all are the experts out here.

[Tristor]

I'd avoid the Hawk pads personally. They tend to produce badly corrosive brake dust which is difficult to clean from the wheels and can cause pitting of the wheel barrel when wet.

RBF600 or ATE Type 200 is a good choice for fluid.

For brake pads, there's lots of decent options. I really liked the Ferodo pads when I was starting out on track, they felt very good to me. I have Carbotechs on right now and they are decent, but not quite as nice as the Ferodos. I ordered some CSG Spec brake pads for this year and they should be here soon, by the numbers they look superior to pretty much every other option.

[ZDan]

I've run XP8, XP10, and HP+.
The carbotechs are quite streetable, I've run them for months on end on the street to and from tracks. Good for ~6-8 events on my S2000. Some noise but this is reduced after a track event. Some dusting, but not terrible and cleans up OK.
HP+ are *very* noisy, and also dust a ton more and it's harder to clean off. But the have fantastic initial bite which I liked.

IMO you won't have any problems running off-the-shelf name-brand DOT4 fluid, I don't think there's any need for Motul. No need for stainless brake lines either, IMO...

[J1Avs]

Originally Posted by Tristor

I'd avoid the Hawk pads personally. They tend to produce badly corrosive brake dust which is difficult to clean from the wheels and can cause pitting of the wheel barrel when wet.

RBF600 or ATE Type 200 is a good choice for fluid.

For brake pads, there's lots of decent options. I really liked the Ferodo pads when I was starting out on track, they felt very good to me. I have Carbotechs on right now and they are decent, but not quite as nice as the Ferodos. I ordered some CSG Spec brake pads for this year and they should be here soon, by the numbers they look superior to pretty much every other option.

Originally Posted by ZDan

I've run XP8, XP10, and HP+.
The carbotechs are quite streetable, I've run them for months on end on the street to and from tracks. Good for ~6-8 events on my S2000. Some noise but this is reduced after a track event. Some dusting, but not terrible and cleans up OK.
HP+ are *very* noisy, and also dust a ton more and it's harder to clean off. But the have fantastic initial bite which I liked.

IMO you won't have any problems running off-the-shelf name-brand DOT4 fluid, I don't think there's any need for Motul. No need for stainless brake lines either, IMO...

Looks like Hawk is off the table anyways, as they don’t even list pads for the tS or PP. I presume the Brembos aren’t unique to the BRZ, but it’s still strange neither tire rack or Hawk list any pads for the tS or PP.

Upon doing more research, it looks like a toss-up between the XP8 and XP10. Are they noticeably different on track? Perhaps I’ll run XP8 while I’m still a novice, and once I burn through those upgrade to XP10.

[strat61caster]

XP10's were my first track pad and I never tracked enough to kill them. Good option, no issues on the street except for some noise when the transfer layer wore down, XP8's from what I understand aren't a big step down so they may do you good too (i think track Miata's start with XP8's before stepping up to heavier duty compounds), the gap between DTC60's and HP+ is pretty big from what I can find out, HP+ would be a no-go imho.

You've got some driving experience, if you have a decent coach you'll kill a set of 'hybrid pads' in less than a day, get something track only. DTC60>HP, XP10>AX6, Ferodo DS1.11>DS2500, Project Mu Club Racer >HC800+, Gloc R10>R6, etc. etc.

Stainless lines won't make any difference, Motul RBF660/600 is a good choice.

[wparsons]

I'd go with RBF600 at a minimum, I personally run Castrol SRF. Lasts a long time, I find it needs less frequent bleeds, etc. It's not cheap though, probably 3-4 times the cost of RBF600. I think project mu (or maybe it's endless?) has a fluid that changes color if it's been overheated, makes it really easy to tell when you're due for a full flush.

I wouldn't bother with XP8's or R8's, go with XP10 or R10 at a minimum. I preferred my last pads (project mu club racers) to the G-loc R10's, but it's a personal preference thing, not a "the R10's suck" thing. I'd also consider the CSG spec pads if they have them for the brembos, they're supposed to be better than the club racers and last much longer.

Skip the stainless lines for now, the brand new lines on your car will be almost every bit as good. When they're due for replacement, then look at stainless lines.

[juliog]

#1 . Leave brake lines alone.

#2 . Your choice of PMU G-Four 335, Endless RF650, Castrol SRF, Brembo HTC 64T brake fluid. Those fluids last longer and are most cost effective than Motul RBF600/660.

#3. Real track day pads. CSG Spec C2, Project Mu CR 999/Club Racer Advance, Carbotech XP10, Winmax W6/W5, among others. Choice depends on budget, type of tires, subjective feel preferences. Hawk HP+ are not track pads, they will burn out and fade really bad.

[J1Avs]

Thanks for all the insight folks! I’m pretty much sold on the Carbotech XP10’s and plan on running them on my wife’s WRX for the same events too.

Still up in the air on the fluid - motul seems the easiest (my shop carries it) but SRF sounds the best. I do really like that PMU changes color though.

Definitely going to skip the brake lines for now.

Thanks again!

[JIM THEO]

Torque RT700 fluid (overall best currently), Project mu 999 my choice of pads!

[JIM THEO]

Brake fluid comparison:
https://thebuildjournal.com/tech-gui...view-analysis/

[churchx]

JIM THEO: didn't torque gone bust after fscking over several resellers with undelivered products and some internal fight as to who was responsible for that and if it's specs are true or just thought up for some other brake fluid rebranded?

[JIM THEO]

Originally Posted by churchx

JIM THEO: didn't torque gone bust after fscking over several resellers with undelivered products and some internal fight as to who was responsible for that and if it's specs are true or just thought up for some other brake fluid rebranded?

I have no idea, could you post some links please?
Specifications are true cause there are fluid comparisons in the net based on analysis not specs.
AFAIK F1 an most WRC teams use Endless RBF650 currently while Castrol SRF was the Nr1 brake fluid for race in the past

[churchx]

JIM THEO: from last post in page 5 to end of RT700 thread in this forum. Posts about unavailability, CSG / The Racers Line and so on posts on undelivered crates of it, post about ProSpeed RS683 possibly being same as RT700, contradicting stories from Gene & Michael from Torque. However things really are, i don't think i'd be able to trust paying for ordering from them now. SRF/Endless/PMU options seem safer choices.

[Tristor]

Honestly, you don't need to spend tons of money on brake fluid. RBF600 is plenty good enough. I have actually ran Motul DOT 5.1 and ATE Type 200 (both way cheaper than any of the "race" fluids) and have experienced good results on track. The only difference between a true "race" brake fluid and a high quality DOT 5.1 or DOT 4 fluid is that you will need to likely bleed after every track day and may need to flush on the normal fluids while a Castrol SRF or similar will last an entire track season.


Depending on how many track days you're planning to do will help you understand if it's worth spending big bucks on fluid. The stock DOT 3 fluid is insufficient for track usage, period. But that doesn't mean you need to shell out for Endless RBF650, Castrol SRF, Motul RBF660, or Torque RT700 just to go do an HPDE or two each year.

Motul DOT 5.1 is $20/liter give or take. ATE Type 200 is $17/liter give or take. Castrol SRF is $65/liter give or take, and Endless RBF650 (if you can even get it) is $100/liter give or take. It simply isn't worth paying $100 for something when $17 will do just fine if you're only doing a few HPDEs a year.


Brakes are safety critical, don't cheap out where it matters, but spending $100 on brake fluid is not going to make you any safer unless you are absolutely hammering your brakes non-stop day after day. Just make sure you properly bleed your brakes before and after every track day, and keep an eye on your fluid reservoir and brake feel during sessions REGARDLESS of which fluid you use, and with the DOT 5.1 you may need to flush more often (but it's way cheaper to do so).