Alignment FAQ Thread

[Dezoris]

The Alignment FAQ Thread 2013

Welcome to the alignment thread where you can read about other's alignments along with what you need to know.

The Performance Alignment and Alignment Video Primer:
This will help you learn the basics before you post and go in for your alignment.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdStfXl1h4Q&"]FR-S and BRZ Performance Alignment Suggestions - YouTube[/ame]



Camber



Non-Adjustable on the FR-S and BRZ unless you install camber bolts, plates or adjustable bushings. More negative camber in the front or rear can help maximize grip of certain tire combo's and suspension settings for race and auto cross. For street driving negative camber is not something needed in excess. Negative camber does not equate into better handling and more grip for all setups.

Factory Range
Front: -0.8 through 0.8
Rear: -2.0 through -0.5


Toe



Toe is adjustable via factory rear eccentric bolts and front tie rods.
Toe out in the front can help increase steering feel or effort and turn in at the expense of steering stability at higher speed. Will also increase wandering. Usual the rear is toe'd into help braking stability and keep the rear end from getting as loose.

Factory Range
Front: -0.12 through 0.12
Rear: -.04 through 0.20


Caster

Is not adjustable from the factory unless you install strut tower plates or steering kits like those available from Perrin. Caster is not something you would normally adjust unless you are doing many track events. Greater positive caster can help brake stability and feel under high load.



Factory Range
Front: 5.2 through 6.7

[Dezoris]

My Experience

After owning my share of sports cars and doing track, autox and karting a correct alignment is a critical part of automotive performance and safety. A proper alignment can also help increase MPG and driving comfort.

Whats the Big Deal?

There are hundreds of thousands of alignments done each week in America. It is a critical part of keeping a vehicle going down the road properly. The tires are the only object keeping your vehicle connected to the pavement. The alignment of the wheels can make or break how well those tires make contact. A poor alignment can devastate handling and grip more so than most any other vehicle property.

However not all alignments are created equal.

• Alignments are cheap $75 to $100
• Alignments are time consuming 1-2 hours
• Most techs hate doing them because changing one setting effects the other.
• Factory alignment specs are VERY broad which promote laziness from the technicians doing the alignments.
• Alignments are done quantity over quality.
• Alignment racks cost upwards of 50k, most shops try to do as many in the shortest amount of time.

"Modern alignment machines make it so easy a 10 year old could do it but some how techs still f*** them up."

My First Alignment OEM Suspension:

My first alignment was done by a body shop. Please note a few problems straight from the factory:

• Camber had a variance from left to right
• The incorrect factory values were loaded
• The final values were hand written which is a red flag
  

My Second Alignment TF Factory
tougefactory.com

This was my second alignment. I had pre-installed the factory crash camber bolts prior to bringing the car in and had them order the rear Whiteline upper control arm camber bushings before my appointment.

Please note a few problems with my alignment from them:

• Took almost 7 hours waiting in the shop
• Did not review final specs before taken off the rack
• After taking delivery of the car the steering wheel was off center
• I returned it to have them correct it same day
  
• After another 2 hours the steering wheel was still off center and the final alignment had large amount of toe-in set on front wheels.
• Factory specs not loaded on alignment machine
• Did not allow me to use driver weight
  

Third Alignment Self Done

For this alignment I installed the Whiteline front camber bolts which were actually re-labeled SPC bolts.

• Very little varience in specs side to side
• Correct values loaded
• Toe settings properly adjusted for street/performance
• Max Camber of SPC/Whiteline front eccentric bolts -1.4

REAR CAMBER BUSHINGS UPPER REAR CONTROL ARMS








Values without Driver Weight:


CAMBER KITS USED FOR MY FINAL ALIGNMENT:

I am in no way endorsing a specific brand or vendor choose the best kit based on your research and your end goal

Whiteline Front Camber Eccentric Bolts Model# KCA416 : (Re-branded SPC Bolts)
Install Time: 10-30 Minutes
Ease of Adjustment: Easy
Ease of Install: Easy
http://ft86speedfactory.com/whitelin...front-200.html

Whiteline Rear Camber Bushings UCA Model # KCA326: (2 Hours Labor to Install - $200)
Install Time: 1.5 - 2.0 Hours
Ease of Adjustment: Medium
Ease of Install: Difficult

http://ft86speedfactory.com/whitelin...r-kit-215.html

[Dezoris]

Customized Suspensions Create Alignment Headaches

A factory FR-S and BRZ only have adjustable toe.


What if I add adjustable suspension coilovers?

• Now you will need to install camber correction kits to be able to correct camber the changes.
• Lowering the car will change camber variances and toe variances side to side.
• Alignments now require you not only adjust toe, camber but you will also now have to deal with corner balancing.
• As soon as you change the ride height your alignment changes.
• Since your car now has altered adjustable height shocks/struts on each corner, the factory weight balance is now different. (EXAMPLE: A car that was now 52/48 cross balance could now be 40/60 or worse.)
• A normal alignment without adjustable suspension takes about 2 hours.
• An alignment with corner balancing will take as much as 7 hours.
• Corner balancing is a specialty service done by very few shops.

If Adjustable Suspension is Such a Headache Why Do So Many People Do it?

• They don't know any better
• Coilover kits are a dime a dozen
• It's a cheap way to get a drop
• Stigma
• It's advertised as making the car handle, often with no proof of this

10 Things You Should Know Before Installing Coilovers

1. They don't automatically make the car handle better/faster
2. Know the spring rates are of the OEM springs and the Kit you bought (If you dont know this answer then reconsider buying them)
3. You will need camber correction kits and potentially caster kit to get your alignment fixed after the install.
4. If your alignment is out of spec it can effect performance far beyond whatever you may have gained with the coil overs
5. Alignments just got 3x more complicated
6. Alignments now cannot be handled by most shops
7. Do you know what corner balancing is?
8. Every time you change ride height you need to re-corner balance and re-align.
9. There is no such thing as a track setting that is good for the street and vice versa.
10. Most coil over kits were never even tested on a track or street, they were computer designed and MAYBE test fitted. (Ask for proof of testing, chances are you won't get it.)

[Dezoris]

Conclusion:

If you are looking for a custom alignment or a good alignment:

1. Do your homework, know exactly what you want. If you are driving a daily driver you don't need a race car alignment.
   
2. Know what camber, caster and toe does to your vehicle.
3. Don't change your alignment unless you know exactly what you are trying to fix.
   
4. Talk with your alignment shop prior to your appointment and find out how comfortable they are with doing a custom alignment and agree on a price.
5. Request to review the final specs while car is still on the alignment rack.
6. Make sure you a satisfied with the alignment specs before you leave the shop.
7. Test drive the car and make sure the wheel is straight, that the car does not pull severally to one side and that you are comfortable with the stability.
   

[FT-86 SpeedFactory]

Absolutely a great thread. Thanks!

[SakDiesel]

Awesome post, great info!

[ayau]

can you comment on the differences between the whiteline bolts and the factory crash bolts? does the whiteline give you more negative camber?

for someone who's looking for some negative camber but nothing extreme, would you recommend camber bolts at the front and the eccentric bushings in the rear?

[JoeBoxer]

Please sticky this thread please. Our final alignments are very similar but i stuck with the oem camber bolt and used SPC rear lower control arms. Took a couple tries to get it right, patience is key and having somebody that will do it how you want instead of just trying to get it in factory spec is key.

Very nice points made about coilovers although corner balancing is not really required in most cases for a daily driver. I think brzranger felt that way also. If you do get coilovers but want to keep alignments simple you can get KW, Tein Street Basis, GC Street, Cusco Street Spec, etc that use the factory upper strut mounts.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by FT-86 SpeedFactory

Absolutely a great thread. Thanks!

I appreciate the quick response and quick shipping, will definitely be using you again for other parts.

Originally Posted by ayau

what's the max neg camber you can get on the whiteline bolts? i know the factory crash bolts can get you about -1.4 max at the front.

After I installed the OEM Crash bolts the max camber before alignment was:

FRONT RIGHT: -1.2
FRONT LEFT: -0.7

Since I did not do this alignment myself, the final numbers were actually:
FRONT RIGHT: -0.5
FRONT LEFT: -0.5

There are a few reasons why and please remember this actually may differ from car to car due to manufacturing differences.

• The crash bolts are harder to align because when you loosen them up on the alignment rack camber you are actually pulling on the wheel hub to move the entire assembly in and out. This makes it very difficult to be accurate.
• It takes more time to do the alignment this way.
• The tech doing the alignment may have not wanted to spend the time to get more camber. Once he got both sides even he probably just called it quits.

As you can see the Whiteline/SPC bolts did actually get more negative camber, and were much easier to use to align the car. You can expect a max of -0.9 to -1.4 of camber. And it took about 20 minutes to adjust on the rack. For $55 through ft86speedfactory just use those and be done with it.

Unless you plan on doing autox in a stock class.

[ABQautoxer]

I got -1.6 on my factory crash bolts and most have been between -1.2 and -1.6.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by JoeBoxer

Please sticky this thread please. Our final alignments are very similar but i stuck with the oem camber bolt and used SPC rear lower control arms. Took a couple tries to get it right, patience is key and having somebody that will do it how you want instead of just trying to get it in factory spec is key.

Very nice points made about coilovers although corner balancing is not really required in most cases for a daily driver. I think brzranger felt that way also. If you do get coilovers but want to keep alignments simple you can get KW, Tein Street Basis, GC Street, Cusco Street Spec, etc that use the factory upper strut mounts.

Absolutely agree with you. Everyone has a different idea about what the best kits and parts are. I don't even want to get into that. I just wanted to point out that, when you start adding adjustable suspensions the easy part is installing them. The hard part is actually getting the alignment, balancing and tuning setup correctly.

Daily drivers don't need 40 way adjustable shocks, rebound and bound adjustment. It's one of those selling features companies sell like snake oil to people who have no idea what that even means. Most of these same companies can't even provide spring and damper rates on their products either.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by ABQautoxer

I got -1.6 on my factory crash bolts and most have been between -1.2 and -1.6.

I am allowing for this, however every car is different in terms of manufacturing. All I am saying is some cars may get more or less camber with the factory bolts. I don't want to provide wrong information. Nothing worse then telling someone:

"Expect X" And when they get Y they are pissed off.

If you are sticking with stock class for autox go with the crash bolts. If you don't care about that use the Whiteline kit, it's much easier to adjust on the alignment rack and more precise, if you can deal with spending an extra $25.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I appreciate the quick response and quick shipping, will definitely be using you again for other parts.



After I installed the OEM Crash bolts the max camber before alignment was:

FRONT RIGHT: -1.2
FRONT LEFT: -0.7

Since I did not do this alignment myself, the final numbers were actually:
FRONT RIGHT: -0.5
FRONT LEFT: -0.5

There are a few reasons why and please remember this actually may differ from car to car due to manufacturing differences.

• The crash bolts are harder to align because when you loosen them up on the alignment rack camber you are actually pulling on the wheel hub to move the entire assembly in and out. This makes it very difficult to be accurate.
• It takes more time to do the alignment this way.
• The tech doing the alignment may have not wanted to spend the time to get more camber. Once he got both sides even he probably just called it quits.

As you can see the Whiteline/SPC bolts did actually get more negative camber, and were much easier to use to align the car. You can expect a max of -0.9 to -1.4 of camber. And it took about 20 minutes to adjust on the rack. For $55 through ft86speedfactory just use those and be done with it.

Unless you plan on doing autox in a stock class.

thanks for the honest feedback. staying in stock class doesn't concern me since i'm not a hardcore autocrosser. i will sell the factory crash bolts and buy some aftermarket camber bolts.

if i understand this correctly, the whiteline bolts don't move the entire hub assembly when adjusting for negative camber.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by ayau

for someone who's looking for some negative camber but nothing extreme, would you recommend camber bolts at the front and the eccentric bushings in the rear?

Are you planning on lowering the car? The rear bushings are PITA to install; I figure once I drop the car that I'm just going to grab some adjustable rear LCA. If you're not going for stock class, it's the better choice IMO.