New 1st Gen BRZ’s Officially Sold Out in U.S.

[Jmk91]

Originally Posted by soundman98

ok, i'm confused. what does voting record do other than poorly insult the other person you're talking to? have you successfully convinced people to see things your way by calling them a poopyface in the past?

and how did a a simple 3 posts turn into a quickly devolving example of godwin's law?

The voting comment was for giggles, from him calling me a fanboi. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. All I did was simply put in my opinion, he clearly doesn’t know the car market for used cars currently. The sky doesn’t change from my opinion or anyone’s opinion. This is a simple discussion and the opposing person went on the attacking side first. We all see things differently and that’s okay. If we all agreed on everything the world would be a very dull environment. I personally will not be interested in the second generation. I don’t think it looks good in my opinion but only time will tell if it’s a bust or not. It could possibly be the best selling abomination for all I know ����

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Jmk91

The voting comment was for giggles, from him calling me a fanboi. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. All I did was simply put in my opinion, he clearly doesn’t know the car market for used cars currently. The sky doesn’t change from my opinion or anyone’s opinion. This is a simple discussion and the opposing person went on the attacking side first. We all see things differently and that’s okay. If we all agreed on everything the world would be a very dull environment. I personally will not be interested in the second generation. I don’t think it looks good in my opinion but only time will tell if it’s a bust or not. It could possibly be the best selling abomination for all I know ����

I chimed in because I am sick and tired of people that don't like it being told they are wrong and their opinion is meaningless or "not valid". We don't all have to like it and those that don't have every bit as much say as those that do. If all that is ever said is "oh iT Is tHe bEStest cAR eever BuiLdEd" then that is what they will continue to produce.
I am overjoyed that they built it at all since I was sure it was going to be some hybrid or totally disappointing performance wise but just wish they hadn't asked what appears to be a bunch of separate 16 year olds to design the body!
We will see if all these admirers step up and vote with their wallets or if they are all just tire kickers.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

We will see if all these admirers step up and vote with their wallets or if they are all just tire kickers.

That's the only bottom line that matters, literally and figuratively. Car manufacturers don't care about 'opinions'. They care about sales.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Kiske

No dog in the fight however-

Last weekend I just sold my 2013 BRZ to Carmax with 35k miles, with a CEL... to which it will need a full head rebuild (has bent valves.) for 17k.

Right now, they have a few 2020 and 2018 tS models listed for 36k with on cars with less than 15k on the ODO's. So it isn't that far fetched of an idea.

I am having serious troubles squaring those numbers with these from a previous thread -
1. 2016 BRZ sport-tech (limited), 43000 km (26718mi), CAD 19000 (USD 15398)

Mods:
- tomei UEL headers
- mxp comp rs catback
- tein street basis coilovers
- 18" avid.1 av20 wheels
- seidoworks whale tail spoiler
- valenti sequential tail lights

2. 2015 BRZ Aozora (Series.Blue), 60000 km (37282mi), CAD 18000 (USD 14587)

No mods

3. 2015 BRZ sport-tech (limited), 82000 km (50952mi), CAD 14500 (USD 11751), CAD 11500 (USD 9319) if return to stock

Mods:
- new clutch and brakes
- Tein z lowering springs
- Wheels: AodHan ds02
- Doors , license plate and interior lights all LED.
- Exhaust: invidia N1 with burnt titanium tips plus tomei UEL header.
- Tuned: stage 2+ with launch control and flatfoot shifting.
- Taillights: Valentin sequential.
- Lip kit: front lip, side skirt and rear spats.



Not only that, there were people saying that NONE of these cars were great deals. I believe you about CarMax - I also remember that before I purchased my brand new 2020 Limited from Subaru late last summer for 28.4k (with a 0.5 interest loan), I test drove a 2018, non limited, at CarMax that had 15k was listed for 27k and which they said there was no wiggle room. All I could think is what idiot would buy that car.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I chimed in because I am sick and tired of people that don't like it being told they are wrong and their opinion is meaningless or "not valid". We don't all have to like it and those that don't have every bit as much say as those that do. If all that is ever said is "oh iT Is tHe bEStest cAR eever BuiLdEd" then that is what they will continue to produce.
I am overjoyed that they built it at all since I was sure it was going to be some hybrid or totally disappointing performance wise but just wish they hadn't asked what appears to be a bunch of separate 16 year olds to design the body!
We will see if all these admirers step up and vote with their wallets or if they are all just tire kickers.

Look, you either like the side skirts and actual vents or you don't. You like or don't like the whale tail spoiler. And you like or don't like the changes to the hood/grill.

Personally, getting rid of the two cheesiest elements on our cars - the fake engine vents and the goofy U shaped crease in the hood - makes the second gen car look MUCH better alone. And I think the side skirts and the vents give the car much more of a muscular stance over the current version. I also think it makes the car look more substantial and more like a Porsche. One reason I would never buy a Miata, among others is that it just looks like a "dainty" little thing. And the changes to the 2nd gen, almost all of them, make it look more muscular, substantial, and less dainty - which to me is a good thing.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

All opinions are equally valid that is what makes them opinions rather than facts.

They could have put "functional" vents on without making the front fenders look like a 1930s art deco bank and running boards went out of fashion on passenger cars in the 1940s.

The chip shortage is real. It is not some made up problem. It has had a major impact on the plants I work in. Subaru has shut down production at least 3 times due to it so not sure how you think they have plenty. This will impact what they have and will make for quite some time yet and the higher sellers will take priority.

The market for the first gen is way high right now. Cars are easily going for 30% more than they did just a year ago. This is not hard info to find. Comparing the first release sales of a second gen to the last year release of the first is a fools game. The improvements are nice and all but they are not that major to create massive demand.

There are loads of people that think that the second gen is an abomination. They just get shouted down by a crowd that probably can't afford a new car anyway as soon as they say anything bad. The reviews are mostly biased since the reviewers were pretty much hand picked to be the first to drive the thing. We won't see accurate independent reviews for some time yet.

You sound like a pretentious fanboi that feels he know more than he really does because he reads the clickbaits and believes the marketing hype.

We'll see. But if anyone wants to pay me 36k right now for my 2020 limited with 18k miles on it, it's yours. It has $1,000 in stereo improvements and a JDL ceramic coated UEL header. Ill even throw in the OFT. Heck, I'll take 32k. Takers? Anyone?? Anyone??

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

I am having serious troubles squaring those numbers with these from a previous thread -
1. 2016 BRZ sport-tech (limited), 43000 km (26718mi), CAD 19000 (USD 15398)

Mods:
- tomei UEL headers
- mxp comp rs catback
- tein street basis coilovers
- 18" avid.1 av20 wheels
- seidoworks whale tail spoiler
- valenti sequential tail lights

2. 2015 BRZ Aozora (Series.Blue), 60000 km (37282mi), CAD 18000 (USD 14587)

No mods

3. 2015 BRZ sport-tech (limited), 82000 km (50952mi), CAD 14500 (USD 11751), CAD 11500 (USD 9319) if return to stock

Mods:
- new clutch and brakes
- Tein z lowering springs
- Wheels: AodHan ds02
- Doors , license plate and interior lights all LED.
- Exhaust: invidia N1 with burnt titanium tips plus tomei UEL header.
- Tuned: stage 2+ with launch control and flatfoot shifting.
- Taillights: Valentin sequential.
- Lip kit: front lip, side skirt and rear spats.



Not only that, there were people saying that NONE of these cars were great deals. I believe you about CarMax - I also remember that before I purchased my brand new 2020 Limited from Subaru late last summer for 28.4k (with a 0.5 interest loan), I test drove a 2018, non limited, at CarMax that had 15k was listed for 27k and which they said there was no wiggle room. All I could think is what idiot would buy that car.

All three of those cars would be about 22k in my area in decent shape. Facelift cars in decent shape under 60k miles are going for over 25k. There is a used 18' with 22k miles at a dealership over here listed for 34k!!

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

All three of those cars would be about 22k in my area in decent shape. Facelift cars in decent shape under 60k miles are going for over 25k. There is a used 18' with 22k miles at a dealership over here listed for 34k!!

Two things - what a dealership has a car listed for and what it sells for are two different things.

Second, I can go on Cars.com and find the following (remember these are asking, not selling, prices) -

2015 limited with 41k miles - 19,900
2015 Series Blue 81k miles - 19,350
2015 limited with 55.5k miles - 17,600
2016 61.5k miles - 20,500

These are all US, so even if you can't get to Canada to get the smoking deals that are apparently up there, you can at least get one of these shipped to you (and there are many, many similar options)

I will admit, the asking prices are still higher than I would have thought and this is particularly true with newer models. But it doesn't make my 2020 worth more than I paid for it (wish it did)!

[Kiske]

That depends on what you paid for it.



-Grabbed the first 2020 WRB BRZ Limited I could find on google listed at Grand Subaru in Bensenville, IL. They are asking 31.6k for it with 6900 miles. Copy and pasted that vin into carmax for a quote. If I brought that car into them today, I'd walk out with a check for $28,400 in 2.5 hours.


$28,400 is already more than I paid for my 2013 Limited and my 2018 tS cars. Both brand new and from different dealerships.

I can't imagine anyone paying more that that for a brand new 2020 car given no changes since 18. Well...except those who wanted the Ceramic White tS or overseas Final Editions.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Two things - what a dealership has a car listed for and what it sells for are two different things.

Second, I can go on Cars.com and find the following (remember these are asking, not selling, prices) -

2015 limited with 41k miles - 19,900
2015 Series Blue 81k miles - 19,350
2015 limited with 55.5k miles - 17,600
2016 61.5k miles - 20,500

These are all US, so even if you can't get to Canada to get the smoking deals that are apparently up there, you can at least get one of these shipped to you (and there are many, many similar options)

I will admit, the asking prices are still higher than I would have thought and this is particularly true with newer models. But it doesn't make my 2020 worth more than I paid for it (wish it did)!

Who said anything about getting more than you paid for it? My statement was that they are well up from what they were a year ago. Last year at this time those would have been $16,000 cars now they are asking (I agree asking is not getting) $19,000+. Considering you cherry picked the lower end of the asking price then an improvement of 20% to 30% is probably pretty standard.

On that note however a couple of weeks back the dealer that did my service did indeed offer me $2,000 more than I paid for my 2020 on trade in for any vehicle on the lot. I declined. Not a cash offer so they were going to make money somehow but still an offer for more than I paid.

OH YA and those "Canadian deals" are not deals. We do not pay for our stuff in US dollars so applying the exchange rate is a meaningless figure. It reflects the value of the currency against each other not the buying power in the base country.
If the car costs $1,000 here and you make $10,000 then you need to reduce the cost and the pay to get a true perspective. That cost reduction to $700 is countered by the wage reduction to $7,000. This means that the true cost does not lower by applying exchange.
Cars (ALL cars cost more here since we don't have such a large market.

[2020BRZtS]

Does this reflect the market?

A 2020 BRZ tS in Tennessee with less options and 22K miles is listed for 10% over what I paid for mine new... and I paid retail.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Two things - what a dealership has a car listed for and what it sells for are two different things.

Second, I can go on Cars.com and find the following (remember these are asking, not selling, prices) -

2015 limited with 41k miles - 19,900
2015 Series Blue 81k miles - 19,350
2015 limited with 55.5k miles - 17,600
2016 61.5k miles - 20,500

These are all US, so even if you can't get to Canada to get the smoking deals that are apparently up there, you can at least get one of these shipped to you (and there are many, many similar options)

I will admit, the asking prices are still higher than I would have thought and this is particularly true with newer models. But it doesn't make my 2020 worth more than I paid for it (wish it did)!

As I said, my area. Different area's are going to have different demands and different pricing and that is my pricing in my area. Some private party sales are less, but most are only a couple thousand off dealer pricing.

Of course that is asking price, but cars here are not going for much less then asking.

[anticubus]

Can confirm it's pretty much the entire market.

Two-three months back I did a few sale quotes on my 2017 86. They were all just over $20k. I did some again today and they're hovering around what I paid for it with 72 miles in Feb 2018, just over $24k.

I am seriously considering it, but then I think about what I'd replace it with and it's just... nothing matches that wouldn't be as much or more. Fits two adults and a dog, I get to fiddle with that wiggly stick in the middle, and it has good styling. It does help that I was able to pay it off completely, the urgency of getting rid it a payment is gone and I can enjoy it.

[dpfarr]

I enjoy thinking I could sell it for more than I paid. This isn’t really a plausible scenario. If I sold this for $35 (20 ts >10k miles) and went to buy a Supra for $45 I’d owe like $30k. Fuck owing money.

If I owned it outright, I might go try to trade it up for a Supra today.