Thoughts on OFT Stage 2+

[Hamza]

This might be long, I'll cut it short as much as I can

For info I have been driving on stage 1 stock everything for the past few months.

I had been craving to get on the 86 platform for years, knowing ins and outs of the cars long before I got it. When I finally go the opportunity to buy one I was stoked.

List of mods I eventually wanted to do were uel headers and oft, couldn't get around to get them but finally got headers recently. Did a ton of research on installing (first time newbie) and just couldn't contain my excitement to hear it rumble and finally go to stage 2+. I had watched just about every reaction video and read through any forum post I could find with every one of them being very positive.

Two days ago finally flashed my car. Drove around for an hour - and guess what - felt no different. Ignored it thinking the ecu just needs time to adjust. A day later drive again for 3 hours - once again essentially little to no difference over stage 1 (stage 1 had a tiny bit of a noticeable difference over stock).

To add more salt going to catless headers (still have a cat in front pipe) made the car louder making me not want to push it that hard anymore and make tons of noise.

I don't know if I fell for the over reactions on Youtube for clout to others saying the car actually pulls now but honestly quite disappointed (expectations were realistic if I be honest). I can just hope the ecu needs more time to adjust but doubtful at this point.

I usually don't like to be one to complain but just felt like a bummer after waiting years for something to finally happen and it be like that



Well anyways on the bright side did a pull in a tunnel (something I've only watched people do in videos) and it sounded like bliss with little pops at the end, made me shiver and smile

[theneptune86]

Interesting that you feel nothing. When coming from stage 1, of course you’re stepping up in stages so you will feel less. It’s been a long time since I was stock, but I know it didn’t pull the same as it does for me now. I went stock to stage 2+.

Before, WOT in first and second would fall on its face in the torque dip, and then power returns after the dip. Now the dip feels all but gone, and 4K rpms and up feel like vtec kicks basically...it pushes noticeably harder with my experience.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Hamza

This might be long, I'll cut it short as much as I can

For info I have been driving on stage 1 stock everything for the past few months.

I had been craving to get on the 86 platform for years, knowing ins and outs of the cars long before I got it. When I finally go the opportunity to buy one I was stoked.

List of mods I eventually wanted to do were uel headers and oft, couldn't get around to get them but finally got headers recently. Did a ton of research on installing (first time newbie) and just couldn't contain my excitement to hear it rumble and finally go to stage 2+. I had watched just about every reaction video and read through any forum post I could find with every one of them being very positive.

Two days ago finally flashed my car. Drove around for an hour - and guess what - felt no different. Ignored it thinking the ecu just needs time to adjust. A day later drive again for 3 hours - once again essentially little to no difference over stage 1 (stage 1 had a tiny bit of a noticeable difference over stock).

To add more salt going to catless headers (still have a cat in front pipe) made the car louder making me not want to push it that hard anymore and make tons of noise.

I don't know if I fell for the over reactions on Youtube for clout to others saying the car actually pulls now but honestly quite disappointed (expectations were realistic if I be honest). I can just hope the ecu needs more time to adjust but doubtful at this point.

I usually don't like to be one to complain but just felt like a bummer after waiting years for something to finally happen and it be like that



Well anyways on the bright side did a pull in a tunnel (something I've only watched people do in videos) and it sounded like bliss with little pops at the end, made me shiver and smile

You would be looking at about a 20HP increase. That is only about 10% of the rated HP and probably still under the 200 mark.
I don't watch Youtube videos on this car because about 98% of them just annoy me but if they were claiming throw you back in the seat changes they were either very confused or did far more than headers and a tune.
The car will indeed be faster than it was but it will not be some big dramatic change.

[Hamza]

Originally Posted by theneptune86

Interesting that you feel nothing. When coming from stage 1, of course you’re stepping up in stages so you will feel less. It’s been a long time since I was stock, but I know it didn’t pull the same as it does for me now. I went stock to stage 2+.

Before, WOT in first and second would fall on its face in the torque dip, and then power returns after the dip. Now the dip feels all but gone, and 4K rpms and up feel like vtec kicks basically...it pushes noticeably harder with my experience.

Yeah I think I should probably drive stock again to feel the effect more. I've checked if I actually flashed the right tune multiple times cause I was like bruh nah

[Hamza]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You would be looking at about a 20HP increase. That is only about 10% of the rated HP and probably still under the 200 mark.
I don't watch Youtube videos on this car because about 98% of them just annoy me but if they were claiming throw you back in the seat changes they were either very confused or did far more than headers and a tune.
The car will indeed be faster than it was but it will not be some big dramatic change.

ahaha I've stopped watching many youtubers unless I need help with something specific, but before you have a car youtube and dream is all you can do

[RToyo86]

Most YouTube kids doing reaction videos to flashing a new tune make it seem like it adds 50-100hp. OMG WOW. In reality it's a subtle but noticeable improvement in mid range and power up top.

The throttle pedal lag after a tune will certainly make the car feelore tame.
I recall the stage 2+ tune taking a while to feel better, mainly because the throttle. That and shivs tune apparently does some learning of its own.

You may want to check the IAM while the car is running and driven around for a bit. Assuming you are running 93-94 octane you should get close to 1IAM. If you run 91 or poor quality fuel you are probably missing out on a fair bit of ignition timing.


I certainly noticed a difference going to stg2+. Mainly how the car felt in the mid range. Pulled a bit smoother and had a bit more linear feel and pulled nicely at redline.
I also flashed my car in December which has temps around 0c which is great for making power on these engines. On hot days with high intake temps the car feels more sluggish.


I also got a custom tune done from @tomm.brz about 2 months after flashing the canned tune. His tune felt way stronger in the mid range compared to stg2+. You can see his timing curve with my setup is more dialed and fatter around 3-5k rpm.

Stg2+
https://datazap.me/u/mygotousername/...ata=1-7&solo=6

Custom
https://datazap.me/u/mygotousername/...log=0&data=1-6

[Terran]

I just went back to stock recently for smog from stage 2+. It was definitely a noticeable difference to me, especially in the mid range

[Hamza]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

Most YouTube kids doing reaction videos to flashing a new tune make it seem like it adds 50-100hp. OMG WOW. In reality it's a subtle but noticeable improvement in mid range and power up top.

The throttle pedal lag after a tune will certainly make the car feelore tame.
I recall the stage 2+ tune taking a while to feel better, mainly because the throttle. That and shivs tune apparently does some learning of its own.

You may want to check the IAM while the car is running and driven around for a bit. Assuming you are running 93-94 octane you should get close to 1IAM. If you run 91 or poor quality fuel you are probably missing out on a fair bit of ignition timing.


I certainly noticed a difference going to stg2+. Mainly how the car felt in the mid range. Pulled a bit smoother and had a bit more linear feel and pulled nicely at redline.
I also flashed my car in December which has temps around 0c which is great for making power on these engines. On hot days with high intake temps the car feels more sluggish.


I also got a custom tune done from @tomm.brz about 2 months after flashing the canned tune. His tune felt way stronger in the mid range compared to stg2+. You can see his timing curve with my setup is more dialed and fatter around 3-5k rpm.

Stg2+
https://datazap.me/u/mygotousername/...ata=1-7&solo=6

Custom
https://datazap.me/u/mygotousername/...log=0&data=1-6

91 octane is the highest we have here (fooled me cause it's called 95 here under a different measuring metric) and right now it's summer here with temps during the day nearing 50C (122 F) to about 37 C (98 F) at the lowest. I guess these two factors combined make a big difference on the feel

[RToyo86]

Originally Posted by Hamza

91 octane is the highest we have here (fooled me cause it's called 95 here under a different measuring metric) and right now it's summer here with temps during the day nearing 50C (122 F) to about 37 C (98 F) at the lowest. I guess these two factors combined make a big difference on the feel

I would give wayno ROMs a look. They're more optimized for 91 equivalent fuel.

If you have temps that high it will definitely effect power. You may want to try to log a WOT 3rd gear pull 2000rpm-redline and upload it like I did. It will tell a lot on how the car behaves. I noticed a big difference with 100f intake temps vs even 75f let alone the 20-35f temps I get during winter months.

[saltywetman]

I also think the difference in feel for stage 2+ is more prominent in pre-face lift models since the gearing changes in the 17+ made the car feel a bit better accelerating. Even so, the everyday driver said it best when they said "the engine feels more eager" and that it's not a "shove" you'll feel but more if a more consistent pulling force. I never did feel the torque dip was super noticeable in my car when stock. But my friend who had a zenki model did say the acceleration felt much better than the stock FRS when he tried my car out

[PetrolioBenzina]

You'd have better luck in the tuning forum.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Hamza

91 octane is the highest we have here (fooled me cause it's called 95 here under a different measuring metric) and right now it's summer here with temps during the day nearing 50C (122 F) to about 37 C (98 F) at the lowest. I guess these two factors combined make a big difference on the feel

Post a datalog (3rd gear, 2500-7400 rpm). I'm guessing your ECU is pulling a lot of timing in 98-122 F ambient temps on 91 octane.

[NoHaveMSG]

You need to do a log to see if there are any issues, upload it to datazap.me

Start by reading here.
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...01#post1842501

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by saltywetman

I also think the difference in feel for stage 2+ is more prominent in pre-face lift models since the gearing changes in the 17+ made the car feel a bit better accelerating. Even so, the everyday driver said it best when they said "the engine feels more eager" and that it's not a "shove" you'll feel but more if a more consistent pulling force. I never did feel the torque dip was super noticeable in my car when stock. But my friend who had a zenki model did say the acceleration felt much better than the stock FRS when he tried my car out

The final drive change is huge in feel. It has a minor hit on highway mialge but is worth it. Going from the 14 FRS to the 20 86 was like gaining about 20HP in feel. Since the actual HP increase was only 5 I feel that it is all in the final. If for some weird reason I had to go back to a pre 17 car I would put the final drive swap at the very top of my list.