KPower Industries K24 swap

[captain awesome]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Does your driver’s butt warmer work?

I have a poverty car. Lowest of the low. No butt warmer for me.

[RedReplicant]

Is there some kind of post with a current list of notes for the swap kit?

I've seen the oil dipstick baffle hole requirement and the weirdness with the fuel level, but I'm assuming there are some other things.

I ordered the complete kit and my motor shows up tomorrow.

[ML]

Originally Posted by RedReplicant

Is there some kind of post with a current list of notes for the swap kit?

I've seen the oil dipstick baffle hole requirement and the weirdness with the fuel level, but I'm assuming there are some other things.

I ordered the complete kit and my motor shows up tomorrow.

Check all the pins are seated in your harness connectors.

[Irace86.2.0]

On the main setup page the fuel pressure is set to 43psi or something, which I have read is an industry standard, but I believe our FPR is set to 60psi. Does that matter? Am I confused? What is the stock FPR set at, and if it fluctuates or something then is 43 psi just an industry low that is what trims/maps use or something?

[hedtrip]

Here is a few things to look for

Originally Posted by captain awesome

Trans tunnel clearance. I and at least one other that I know of didn't make enough room initially since the photos in the instruction aren't really that helpful.


Pretty sure there was only one person that had issues with the oil drain plug being too close to the sub-frame but worth checking on your initial install.



Oil pan flange had too much material where the A/C bracket wants to be.


Don't know how many others had issues but the calibration for the oil temp sensor was way off in the base map provided for the Haltech.


Hood to valve cover clearance. IF the webbing structure of the hood has let go of it's bonding agent then it pushes against the corner of the valve cover. I just ground away a notch in the webbing and moved on with my life. A better man would have glued it back.


There's a small bracket included with the wiring harness but no instructions on what it's for. Supposedly it's to help tidy up everything by the starter so I think that's worth figuring out and mentioning.


Gas gauge issues have been a current issue that I don't think will get fixed anytime soon. I still register a hair over a 1/4 tank with only 2 gallons left.


I'm sure there's something I'm missing but I think that covers most of it?


Rolled just over 1700 miles on my swap so far. Well worth it.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

On the main setup page the fuel pressure is set to 43psi or something, which I have read is an industry standard, but I believe our FPR is set to 60psi. Does that matter? Am I confused? What is the stock FPR set at, and if it fluctuates or something then is 43 psi just an industry low that is what trims/maps use or something?

I'm replying to my own message to update that the stock FPR seems to be delivering 60psi, at least, that is what it is delivering with the DW300c, if that matters. The setting in Haltech is 43.5psi, and it seems to make a difference my tuner said switching to 60psi.

Also, check out my review of Shawn my tuner. We aren't done, but it is going really well and the process has been very good and professional:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=260

[pope]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I'm replying to my own message to update that the stock FPR seems to be delivering 60psi, at least, that is what it is delivering with the DW300c, if that matters. The setting in Haltech is 43.5psi, and it seems to make a difference my tuner said switching to 60psi.

Also, check out my review of Shawn my tuner. We aren't done, but it is going really well and the process has been very good and professional:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=260

Service Manual specs pressure at 51 to 73 psi with Fail-Safe Mode locked at 57.9 psi.

I assume the pump controller is running in fail safe and your pressure is just the tolerance of the in-tank regulator.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by pope

Service Manual specs pressure at 51 to 73 psi with Fail-Safe Mode locked at 57.9 psi.

I assume the pump controller is running in fail safe and your pressure is just the tolerance of the in-tank regulator.

Fuel pump control ECU is bypassed per Kpower’s install, so I would assume voltage is maxed. It could change with rpms if voltage changes. I didn’t video the gauge while revving the engine. Or maybe the regulator changes based on demand by the ECU? I don’t know. Either way, I plan to add the fuel pressure sensor, so if the fuel pressure changes the ECU can compensate.

http://injectordynamics.com/articles...ure-explained/

[Irace86.2.0]

How much vibration is everyone getting? I might need to try disconnecting my exhaust mount that attaches to the transmission and see if that makes a difference. I'm just getting a lot of vibration, and I can't figure out why. Nothing is making contact with the chassis. It is particular bad on deceleration or when going slow like sub 40mph, but having higher revs like 3-4k.

The exhaust is louder going from the old setup with the stock frontpipe to this setup with the high flow Berk frontpipe, but I feel like things should be much smoother. I am driving the family's Accord with a K24, and it is butter smooth. My car was fairly race-car before, but it really went up a few notches, and I just don't know what to look for.

The stock fuel pump has balancing shafts, so I don't know if that is leading to some vibration, the driveshaft is something, the exhaust is something, the transmission mount being hammered is something, etc. and is all adding up or if it is something problematic in my setup.

https://www.k20a.org/threads/oil-pum...-posts.215233/

Stock oil pump:
My car was very nice to drive, great control over the front tires with no wheelhoop and the engine wasnt moving around anymore under WOT or when shifting gears. Vibrations? Haha no, what do you mean?!? Well I could feel a liiiittle vibs in my seat. I had to concentrate to feel it. Life was good, sunshine everyday!
A side note: I have access to a dyno, so I have tuned my car many times, to the dyno we have this wireless Logitech keyboard, and on every run I put it on top of the dash, in the middle of the car, just below the windscreen. It stays put there, no moving, or rattling or nothing.


Changed oilpump to k20a2:
-well, limited to stock rods I have set the revlimit to 7600rpm. Gained 6hp@6nm with this pump up top. First run I did I got scared, I heard and felt strange things, like now something is braking, but the second after I realisted that I had a Logitech keyboard jumping up and down on my dash. Every vibration made it jump up and hit the glass in the windscreen. So I put the keyboard in the soft place of the passanger seat. But the noises were everywere, rattles, sounds, vibrations. It feels like my car is braking apart.
I still drive with this setup, I hate my car. My wife doesnt drive it anymore. My youngest boy now loves it, he have found out a spot in the rear seat where you can, with the right technic, if you open your mouth and shape the rightsized hole with your lips, a sound will appear. Almost like when you blow air down in a empty beerbottle.


K20's doesnt have this kind of problems with stiffer mounts.
So in my world, a k24 should only run without the balance schafts in a REAL race car. That 6horsepowers I would gladly find somewhere else. They werent cheap either. Took me 8hours and cost me almost $400.

[captain awesome]

I think it's a little bit of everything adding up. The most vibration I get is about 3500-4500 mainly at the trans tunnel. I have some dash vibrations and interior vibrations but plan to address that with some sound deadening/dampening material.



Once the shifter is hard mounted to the chassis it sends a ton of NVH into the trans tunnel. I would like a shifter mount that is isolated like stock but the Kpower one functions and feels really good so I'll probably just live with it. Maybe put a rubber gasket between it and the tunnel?



Balance shaft in the oil pump contributes to the vibration as well. I have no clue how much though.



If you have gone with the lighter aluminum flywheel you probably have reduced dampening there as well.


Single piece driveshaft with the fa20 has been known to create vibes at certain RPM so it is possible that could be a factor. I was considering modifying my stock two piece but I don't think there is enough room at the front section to make it feasible.



At the end of the day Kpower made this kit for race cars with a sprinkle of street options. I'm okay with that to some extent but I think there are some options to make the car more comfy as a GT car. I've read these engines vibrate quite a bit, so there's probably only so much you can do to mitigate that.

[Irace86.2.0]

I have the stock flywheel. I don’t feel a lot of vibration through the shifter, which made me think the vibration wasn’t originating out back, but maybe it is transferring through to the chassis. I don’t know.

The difficulty thus far is figuring out where the problem stems from. I don’t know how to rule out the driveshaft, engine, contact point, clutch, etc

[steved]

Originally Posted by captain awesome

At the end of the day Kpower made this kit for race cars with a sprinkle of street options.

I don't think that's an accurate representation of kmiata/kpower public intent with this kit. From what I remember, and what caught my attention was the premium swap angle, non-race motor mounts, fully functional canbus, and A/C options. These things are distinctly not racecar.

If they aren't delivering on this, then I think you guys should get on their Facebook page and publicly ask them to set the expectations.

I've held off buying this swap kit for exactly this reason, from this thread and others (thanks everyone for participating and giving back to the community) there seem to be a few loose ends that should have been pretty obvious when they built the prototype, and if the only thing they did was throw it around a race track during QC that would definitely hide NVH issues, tuning issues, etc that one would experience driving on the street.

[captain awesome]

Originally Posted by steved

I don't think that's an accurate representation of kmiata/kpower public intent with this kit. From what I remember, and what caught my attention was the premium swap angle, non-race motor mounts, fully functional canbus, and A/C options. These things are distinctly not racecar.

If they aren't delivering on this, then I think you guys should get on their Facebook page and publicly ask them to set the expectations.

I've held off buying this swap kit for exactly this reason, from this thread and others (thanks everyone for participating and giving back to the community) there seem to be a few loose ends that should have been pretty obvious when they built the prototype, and if the only thing they did was throw it around a race track during QC that would definitely hide NVH issues, tuning issues, etc that one would experience driving on the street.

I'm not at all upset with the end product. You are correct that they did plenty to make the package more street centric than they could have with extra features. I knew the shifter was going to bring NVH into the cabin being solid mounted to the trans tunnel. The Whiteline insert also adds to this. I knew the single driveshaft was going to possibly create vibration at certain RPM. I also had read that a k24 wasn't exactly a vibration free powerplant especially when the oil pump balancing assembly is removed. So my expectations were on par with reality. I plan to address these at some point if possible to mitigate the buzz. Heck I would have bought a partial kit to fabricate my own solutions from the beginning if the package options made that more feasible.



With that said I still think their overall intentions are for a racing centric audience. Maybe with a skew towards some streetability for autocross or TT but I think a large part of that is because a massive chunk of "racers" probably don't want a fully gutted car.

[Irace86.2.0]

I plan to make some changes in the next few weeks to see if anything changes:

--I want to remove the strut tower to make sure it isn't hitting at all. I had hammered a little on the inner hood supports to makes sure there was no contact with engine movement, and I don't see rub marks, but I will eliminate that as a possibility.
--I want to remove my exhaust hanger to the transmission and see if that makes a difference. If it does then I will cut off the current hanger and switch to a rubber mount.
--I want to adjust my clutch pedal a few centimeters to see if that matters, as it seems a fraction bit lower than previous, but that could be just me moving from what car to the next.
--I want to remove the under panels because something there seems like it is hitting or making shaking noises because there is a very tinny, hollow sound on decel.
--I don't know what I could do to identify if the driveshaft is the source of some of the vibration. Most of the vibration is low speed, low load and high RPM and decel type of vibration. It seems the smoothest on the highway, which seems opposite of what most say when they complain of single piece driveshafts.

Outside of that, I will double down on looking for other sources of noise and vibration. I'm pretty sure the clearance on the transmission tunnel is fine.