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Old 10-17-2021, 07:49 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Boomerang View Post
Yes IAM is advance multiplier.


So now we can see the command AFR vs actual you can see it is running a bit rich around 6500rpm.



Run it for a few hundred k's and log again and see what it looks like.

Thanks,
Yea I don’t know enough about logging to really understand those things where you’re talking about comparing the command afr to the afr

My initial logs on the default tune said I was running extremely lean (12.6-12.9 afr) and the action to correct that is to tune +4% more fuel. I tune +4% more fuel and my car stops working.
I tune it down to just +2% more fuel than the default tune that was giving me 12.6-12.9 afr and now my logs are telling me I’m running very rich.

A whole 0.8 afr difference from just 2% more fuel, neither of those tunes giving me values that were close to the normal 12.1-12.3 range.


Will keep the 2% on as you said and see what it does, I’m just a bit paranoid after that start failure on the 4% of something similar happening again on the 2%. Have work early tomorrow, hopefully the car can successfully cold start and run
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Old 10-17-2021, 08:07 AM   #16
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Thanks,
Yea I don’t know enough about logging to really understand those things where you’re talking about comparing the command afr to the afr

My initial logs on the default tune said I was running extremely lean (12.6-12.9 afr) and the action to correct that is to tune +4% more fuel. I tune +4% more fuel and my car stops working.
I tune it down to just +2% more fuel than the default tune that was giving me 12.6-12.9 afr and now my logs are telling me I’m running very rich.

A whole 0.8 afr difference from just 2% more fuel, neither of those tunes giving me values that were close to the normal 12.1-12.3 range.


Will keep the 2% on as you said and see what it does, I’m just a bit paranoid after that start failure on the 4% of something similar happening again on the 2%. Have work early tomorrow, hopefully the car can successfully cold start and run



You're on the right track mate, don't stress.


If your command AFR is 12.6 and your actual AFR is 12 then you are running rich-think you understand this.


You probably had too much fuel on the +4% making it run to rich giving you the starting problem.


The only way to perfectly dial it in is via MAF scaling. That is not too difficult if you want to try. Lots of logging though...


Just remember E85 is a bit harder to cold start tomorrow morning-that is normal.
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Old 10-18-2021, 02:20 AM   #17
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You're on the right track mate, don't stress.


If your command AFR is 12.6 and your actual AFR is 12 then you are running rich-think you understand this.


You probably had too much fuel on the +4% making it run to rich giving you the starting problem.


The only way to perfectly dial it in is via MAF scaling. That is not too difficult if you want to try. Lots of logging though...


Just remember E85 is a bit harder to cold start tomorrow morning-that is normal.
The part that's confusing me is am I meant to be going off strictly my AFR and my Command AFR to know whether i'm running rich/lean, or am I meant to be comparing it to Wayne's MAF scale variations?


Did another log on the way home from work, the AFR looks a little better, in some cases i'm getting 12.2-12.3 AFR and 12.5 command AFR at WOT, 6500 RPMs. But it still fluctuates a lot. Not really sure if its getting better or worse.

Going off feeling I can't really tell if the car feels better or worse. Sort of feels like my 1st and 2nd gear acceleration is a bit slower but my 3rd gear pulls harder than before. Exhaust sound doesn't seem any different, no pops or burbles that i'd expect if I was running rich. If anything it might even be quieter than the default, leaner tune

Here's a log
https://datazap.me/u/sam86/rich-log2....93&tmax=96.76
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Old 10-18-2021, 10:36 AM   #18
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The part that's confusing me is am I meant to be going off strictly my AFR and my Command AFR to know whether i'm running rich/lean, or am I meant to be comparing it to Wayne's MAF scale variations?


Did another log on the way home from work, the AFR looks a little better, in some cases i'm getting 12.2-12.3 AFR and 12.5 command AFR at WOT, 6500 RPMs. But it still fluctuates a lot. Not really sure if its getting better or worse.

Going off feeling I can't really tell if the car feels better or worse. Sort of feels like my 1st and 2nd gear acceleration is a bit slower but my 3rd gear pulls harder than before. Exhaust sound doesn't seem any different, no pops or burbles that i'd expect if I was running rich. If anything it might even be quieter than the default, leaner tune

Here's a log
https://datazap.me/u/sam86/rich-log2....93&tmax=96.76



That's right, comparing your AFR vs command AFR will show you if you are running rich or lean. Use Waynos datazap screenshots as a reference as he shows what running rich/lean will look like on your logs.



Let it run for a few hundred k's and log again before making a judgement and flashing a new tune.


From your last log your AFR vs command AFR are getting closer so all good.
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Old 10-19-2021, 02:13 AM   #19
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That's right, comparing your AFR vs command AFR will show you if you are running rich or lean. Use Waynos datazap screenshots as a reference as he shows what running rich/lean will look like on your logs.



Let it run for a few hundred k's and log again before making a judgement and flashing a new tune.


From your last log your AFR vs command AFR are getting closer so all good.
Going to be hard to wait a few hundred km's to rethink my tune, done about 60kms on the tune and tested my 0-100 and got 7 seconds...

I did a 0-100 test 2 weeks ago in the same location and was getting a consistent average of 6 seconds so, something definitely feels up. The day I was averaging 6 seconds had the sun out too whilst today it was cool
The idle RPM when I come to a stop still seems way lower than it should be, goes from 1200 down to 600 then up to 750 an sits there.

Pretty sure on the leaner default tune it would idle at around 800-900.

Only thing that seems to be working better is the cold start sounds stronger, before it would take a 2nd crank 80% of the time and it would struggle the days it did it 1st try.



Been researching a bit and I think being on the 4% rich tune clogged up my throttle body which is what’s causing my RPMs to drop so low when I come to a stop. Drops as low as 450-500 then goes back up to 750.
Never had any sort of issues like this until immediately after changing the tune. Going to try clean it and see if that fixes anything

Last edited by Sam86; 10-19-2021 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 10-19-2021, 06:08 AM   #20
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Going to be hard to wait a few hundred km's to rethink my tune, done about 60kms on the tune and tested my 0-100 and got 7 seconds...

I did a 0-100 test 2 weeks ago in the same location and was getting a consistent average of 6 seconds so, something definitely feels up. The day I was averaging 6 seconds had the sun out too whilst today it was cool
The idle RPM when I come to a stop still seems way lower than it should be, goes from 1200 down to 600 then up to 750 an sits there.

Pretty sure on the leaner default tune it would idle at around 800-900.

Only thing that seems to be working better is the cold start sounds stronger, before it would take a 2nd crank 80% of the time and it would struggle the days it did it 1st try.



Been researching a bit and I think being on the 4% rich tune clogged up my throttle body which is what’s causing my RPMs to drop so low when I come to a stop. Drops as low as 450-500 then goes back up to 750.
Never had any sort of issues like this until immediately after changing the tune. Going to try clean it and see if that fixes anything

Not sure if you got the tune directly from Wayno? If so hit him up for support..
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Old 10-19-2021, 06:36 AM   #21
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Not sure if you got the tune directly from Wayno? If so hit him up for support..
Yea I did purchase them from him, he has no contact and I don't know if he really uses the site.

Something I noticed is when I loaded up that 4% tune, the tune that I used was his Version 167 tune whilst the default tune and the 2% tune were version 160 that I had preloaded on my OFT...

Changes he has made since the version I was on are:

6AT - Downshift earlier under 2200 rpm.
E85 - Increased cranking fuel quantity as rpm and temp decrease.
Shifting delayed slightly at mid load under 3000 rpm.
Increased line pressure in 1st gear at high load around 2000-2600 rpm.
Expanded LTFT learning range back to MY13-MY16 values.
6AT - Increased line pressure in 1st gear at high load at 2200 rpm.
UEL - Updated for more LTFT learning consistency.

He hasn't updated the changelog on his site for what was changed in Version 166 and 167 yet so I may have used a tune he was still experimenting with unknowingly.

Don't know if any of those were the cause of the issues I experienced. But it would explain the increased power I initially felt before the car died on me and why my throttle response was so poor as the new tune had more too it than just 4% more fuel.

Going to hold off on cleaning the throttle body and wait to see if the tune sorts itself out. If it does I may update it to the most recent default version
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Old 10-19-2021, 06:51 AM   #22
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Yea I did purchase them from him, he has no contact and I don't know if he really uses the site.

Something I noticed is when I loaded up that 4% tune, the tune that I used was his Version 167 tune whilst the default tune and the 2% tune were version 160 that I had preloaded on my OFT...

Changes he has made since the version I was on are:

6AT - Downshift earlier under 2200 rpm.
E85 - Increased cranking fuel quantity as rpm and temp decrease.
Shifting delayed slightly at mid load under 3000 rpm.
Increased line pressure in 1st gear at high load around 2000-2600 rpm.
Expanded LTFT learning range back to MY13-MY16 values.
6AT - Increased line pressure in 1st gear at high load at 2200 rpm.
UEL - Updated for more LTFT learning consistency.

He hasn't updated the changelog on his site for what was changed in Version 166 and 167 yet so I may have used a tune he was still experimenting with unknowingly.

Don't know if any of those were the cause of the issues I experienced. But it would explain the increased power I initially felt before the car died on me and why my throttle response was so poor as the new tune had more too it than just 4% more fuel.

Going to hold off on cleaning the throttle body and wait to see if the tune sorts itself out. If it does I may update it to the most recent default version



What you could do is just swap the MAF scale from the +2% tune to your original tune, that way you may keep the good idle etc you had with the original tune.
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Old 10-19-2021, 07:03 AM   #23
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What you could do is just swap the MAF scale from the +2% tune to your original tune, that way you may keep the good idle etc you had with the original tune.
Well the reason why I mentioned cleaning my throttle body was because I swapped back to the default tune and still am experiencing the extremely low idles. I don't remember experiencing it back when I first flashed the default tune and I know it never happened any time recently. So i'm not sure if this idle problem is going to fix itself as the tune settles or if its something else that was caused by that 4% when it was making me stall on start up.

As I brake to come to a stop it feels like my car is going to stall. The rpms drop lower than i've ever seen them go then spike back to 750 - which I still feel is lower than before. My exhaust is almost completely silent when i'm idling. This is all back on the same version default tune that I was on for 10,000+ kms with 0 issues
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Old 10-19-2021, 07:10 AM   #24
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Well the reason why I mentioned cleaning my throttle body was because I swapped back to the default tune and still am experiencing the extremely low idles. I don't remember experiencing it back when I first flashed the default tune and I know it never happened any time recently. So i'm not sure if this idle problem is going to fix itself as the tune settles or if its something else that was caused by that 4% when it was making me stall on start up.

As I brake to come to a stop it feels like my car is going to stall. The rpms drop lower than i've ever seen them go then spike back to 750 - which I still feel is lower than before. My exhaust is almost completely silent when i'm idling. This is all back on the same version default tune that I was on for 10,000+ kms with 0 issues



You didn't mention you flashed back to your original tune.


I can recall when I have flashed in the past my idle drops low until the tune has settled in after a few days.



If you are flashing a new tune every day you need to give it more time to settle.
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Old 10-19-2021, 07:14 AM   #25
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You didn't mention you flashed back to your original tune.


I can recall when I have flashed in the past my idle drops low until the tune has settled in after a few days.



If you are flashing a new tune every day you need to give it more time to settle.
Yea I hope that's the case I just don't remember experiencing that any other time I've flashed a tune in the past- Got a constant worry now whether I’m just gonna stall out in the middle of the road
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Old 10-20-2021, 09:21 AM   #26
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You probably had too much fuel on the +4% making it run to rich giving you the starting problem.
The additional fuel is only during open loop.
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Old 10-20-2021, 09:32 AM   #27
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After you run 2% for a while, use that or default - whichever feels better at WOT.
There's no changes for E85 UEL in 167 that would cause a negative impact to 6AT. If the 6AT stalls once fuel trims have settled, you can increase the idle speed as a hack instead of performing an ATF level adjustment.
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Old 10-21-2021, 05:57 AM   #28
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After you run 2% for a while, use that or default - whichever feels better at WOT.
There's no changes for E85 UEL in 167 that would cause a negative impact to 6AT. If the 6AT stalls once fuel trims have settled, you can increase the idle speed as a hack instead of performing an ATF level adjustment.
Thank you, i've been back on the default v160 tune for the past 80kms now. I'm going to let it settle to make sure everything is working as it was and then i'll datalog and re-asses going to the v167 default or 2% tune.

Do you have an ideas what might have caused the issues I faced with the v167 4% tune? My idle has been dipping low (450-500) on the other tunes (2% and default) during the learning stage when coming to a stop, but never to the same extent where the car wouldn't start up even after 5 cranks and trying to rev the car to stop the engine from cutting out. I had only been on the 4% tune for 15kms. Aside from the throttle response being worse than it had been after any other reflash, the acceleration did feel stronger than the default tune especially coming out of a corner in 2nd gear.

Had I just read the default logs wrong and incorrectly chosen the 4% tune resulting in my car running far to rich?


My AFR on the default tune was around 12.8 at 6500 WOT.
Switching to the 2% tune after about 70kms of letting it settle it was at 11.9-12.1 at 6500 WOT
No data for the 4% AFR as my OFT wouldn't let me save the log.

Unless I have logged it incorrectly it looked like on the default I was running fairly lean, yet the 2% caused me to run moderately rich (using v160)
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