Is ACE header discontinued? Anyone interested in making a replica?

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Basically this.

Ace's welds were top notch, and it was obvious when you looked at the end product. The ultimate power and powerband speaks for itself. Unfortunately, the general concensus is that FRS/BRZ guys will take a product that gives you 80% of the gains for 20% of the price. Porsche owners on the other hand, are willing to pay a 80% premium for a 20% larger gain. Case in point, a GT3 owner who pays 180k for a 500hp car, vs a Mustang owner who pays 40k for a 460hp car.

Some used Ace headers are still exchanging hands.


Nameless is plagued with copies.

You know why? because the first to be cheap was that Taiwanese guy
because when years ago, you CSG were the only esclusive seller and we italian guys tried also to make business with you
With crazy prices.. .

Then we simply wrote directly to the taiwanese guy friend of yours, saying We want to buy the header but we don t understand why we have to fo though an American reseller when we are in italy, just send it to us?

And that's how we got them shipped in 3 days to my house. i got an ACE A350 LHD for 1000 usd. He also declared only 100 usd to the custom so i paid very few customs with DHL
1000 usd instead of 2500 and he also gave me for free a kit of new gaskets

(sorry need to pay my imageshack subscription and the photo is small, i m being cheap again :P

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

You know why? because the first to be cheap was that Taiwanese guy
because when years ago, you CSG were the only esclusive seller and we italian guys tried also to make business with you
With crazy prices.. .

Then we simply wrote directly to the taiwanese guy friend of yours, saying We want to buy the header but we don t understand why we have to fo though an American reseller when we are in italy, just send it to us?

And that's how we got them shipped in 3 days to my house. i got an ACE A350 LHD for 1000 usd. He also declared only 100 usd to the custom so i paid very few customs with DHL
1000 usd instead of 2500 and he also gave me for free a kit of new gaskets

(sorry need to pay my imageshack subscription and the photo is small, i m being cheap again :P

So you saved some money by using a vendor that falsified documents and defrauded the government? Not sure I would trust that vendor not to do the same to a customer.

[dragoontwo]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

You know why? because the first to be cheap was that Taiwanese guy
because when years ago, you CSG were the only esclusive seller and we italian guys tried also to make business with you
With crazy prices.. .

Then we simply wrote directly to the taiwanese guy friend of yours, saying We want to buy the header but we don t understand why we have to fo though an American reseller when we are in italy, just send it to us?

And that's how we got them shipped in 3 days to my house. i got an ACE A350 LHD for 1000 usd. He also declared only 100 usd to the custom so i paid very few customs with DHL
1000 usd instead of 2500 and he also gave me for free a kit of new gaskets

Are you running a business with a physical storage location and other overhead expenses? If you do, are you willing to sell everything you get from outside vendors at your cost?

[tomm.brz]

It took me few emails to buy the header directly from the guy, the same guy that made an exclusive partnership to sell worldwide ace headers with Csg if i m not wrong

i don t think he sold us 3 headers spaced weeks apart for 1000-1100 usd each at loss? i mean that s Taiwan, it s a lot. of money for them.

CSG said production for brz stopped because average customer is too cheap
Do you see reason why I should pay an American reseller to buy taiwanese headers with a pretty big recharge on it? Just to feel like a porsche guy who spends thousands of dollars on it?

Anyway i guess covid changed a lot of things and costs increase doesn t help but 2500$ as last price was, it s too much for me

[RedReplicant]

Originally Posted by weederr33

I heard they stopped selling them because most twin owners are cheap and they also catered to Porsche. And those owners have money to blow. Lol makes sense since most people talked about how Tomei and OFH were cheaper and just as good. So that right there shows people won’t spend much. Same thing happened with the Nameless Performance and Cosworth packages.

I was under the impression that Ace was a Taiwanese company spun up for the sole purpose of 86 stuff. I can't find anything online about them doing Porsche exhausts, what company name do they do that under?

edit: nevermind, the name of the other company is Vintage Speed, nameservers for aceheader.com gave it away. https://www.vintagespeed.com.tw/
https://www.instagram.com/vintagespeed.taiwan/?hl=en

[PulsarBeeerz]

$2500 Taiwanese header or $1250 American made JDL unit? I cannot believe it got discontinued... Didn't they sell just fine before the 70% price hike? At the last price point there was a lack of value when compared with equally performing alternatives.

[SuperTom]

I have the ACE headers and they are still going strong 4 years later. If I remember correctly during the development the welding technique used on the overpipe part was difficult to replicate, even for the Chinese...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

$2500 Taiwanese header or $1250 American made JDL unit? I cannot believe it got discontinued... Didn't they sell just fine before the 70% price hike? At the last price point there was a lack of value when compared with equally performing alternatives.

It was never "just a header".

It's a long tube header that uses up the entire space occupied by the stock header and overpipe. In other words, it's both a header AND an overpipe; the comparable JDL setup would actually be $1550.

The welds are done slowly and carefully enough that there is virtually zero heat expansion, stress, or discoloration. The sheer amount of welding is significantly greater. Rather than using low cost slip-fits like the JDL, the Ace is seam welded.

While the JDL 4-2-1 is a great product and the best performing header widely available, it is very much designed to also reduce production cost. The Ace was never designed with cost reduction in mind; it's a no-holds-barred header designed with performance prioritized above cost.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

$2500 Taiwanese header or $1250 American made JDL unit? I cannot believe it got discontinued... Didn't they sell just fine before the 70% price hike? At the last price point there was a lack of value when compared with equally performing alternatives.

I like the implication that Taiwanese parts aren't on par with American in quality. As someone who handles both daily, I can say that is not the case.

Nameless also moved away from building their header since people were not willing to accept the price they had to charge for theirs. Though out of the ACE cars I have been in vs. my nameless header, they did feel better

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It was never "just a header".

It's a long tube header that uses up the entire space occupied by the stock header and overpipe. In other words, it's both a header AND an overpipe; the comparable JDL setup would actually be $1550.

The welds are done slowly and carefully enough that there is virtually zero heat expansion, stress, or discoloration. The sheer amount of welding is significantly greater. Rather than using low cost slip-fits like the JDL, the Ace is seam welded.

While the JDL 4-2-1 is a great product and the best performing header widely available, it is very much designed to also reduce production cost. The Ace was never designed with cost reduction in mind; it's a no-holds-barred header designed with performance prioritized above cost.

Which was all well and good under the old price structure, right? I just agreed they sold fine with the value they offered at the time before the price hike. There are supply chain factors that added to them pricing themselves out the 86 market I would imagine as well. I gave up after 2 months of attempting to get a front pipe from them last year. However, I then purchased a JDL unit for 2X cost (because I added features) but had it in 2 weeks.

I am aware of the cost vs effectiveness that JDL was seeking and found. It is partially why they are able to offer the product for only 10% more than the introduction price years later vs. $1000 more and discontinued. Again it isn't a cheap owner thing as much as a value proposition. It was poorer value to the customer now and they (Ace) knew it as well.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I like the implication that Taiwanese parts aren't on par with American in quality. As someone who handles both daily, I can say that is not the case.

Nameless also moved away from building their header since people were not willing to accept the price they had to charge for theirs. Though out of the ACE cars I have been in vs. my nameless header, they did feel better

So we both have worked in manufacturing/supply chain. However, quality implications are something you made jumped to. I only stated the location of manufacture. I assessed that a $2500 header offers less value than one for half the price or ($1000 less) given similar performance.

Is the objective and subjective quality better on one than the other? I cannot speak to that, I've never laid eyes on a ACE unit. I have seen a few issues with weld cracks at the thinner flanges on them vs no reported issues with the competitor. But not a lot to go off of really. I may have made the subtle implication of supporting onshore small business vs offshore which I do stand by.

Nameless stepped away from the business because of a blatant knockoff which under cut their authentic product. That really needs to be mentioned, it was not just cost of entry.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

So we both have worked in manufacturing/supply chain. However, quality implications are something you made jumped to. I only stated the location of manufacture. I assessed that a $2500 header offers less value than one for half the price or ($1000 less) given similar performance.

Is the objective and subjective quality better on one than the other? I cannot speak to that, I've never laid eyes on a ACE unit. I have seen a few issues with weld cracks at the thinner flanges on them vs no reported issues with the competitor. But not a lot to go off of really. I may have made the subtle implication of supporting onshore small business vs offshore which I do stand by.

Nameless stepped away from the business because of a blatant knockoff which under cut their authentic product. That really needs to be mentioned, it was not just cost of entry.

Then why mention Taiwanese made vs American made? If you would rather support onshore smaller business vs. offshore small business that is fine. I do the same and buy nameless because they are local and it's good enough for me. If the jist of your point is a 2500 doesn't offer the performance for the value just say that

I have seen the weld cracks on the thinner flanged header as well.

I have never heard that side of the nameless story. I know they put out feelers on making more headers a couple years ago and there was no interest at the price. Doesn't seem to stop JDL.

[Teseo]

JDL is lifetime warranty for og owner, that is very appealing for some people who want the car as much time allow it. My header is 5+ years with 40,000 miles and it looks great so far. But ACE header was meant to be on performance side, no wonder was #1 header for extracting every drop of hp for these engines...

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by Teseo

JDL is lifetime warranty for og owner, that is very appealing for some people who want the car as much time allow it. My header is 5+ years with 40,000 miles and it looks great so far. But ACE header was meant to be on performance side, no wonder was #1 header for extracting every drop of hp for these engines...

the most common ACE, a350, looses hp versus other cheaper headers with shorter runners
ACE has better torque under the curve, but up top at max hp zone around 6800-7000rpm, just a cheap 500$ Skunk2 EL header + a random overpipe will reach higher HP than a 2500$ ACE

[churchx]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

the most common ACE, a350, looses hp versus other cheaper headers with shorter runners
ACE has better torque under the curve, but up top at max hp zone around 6800-7000rpm, just a cheap 500$ Skunk2 EL header + a random overpipe will reach higher HP than a 2500$ ACE

Except car doesn't accelerate ONLY in 6800-7400 range, it spends enough time from 4000-4500 till that range, if not more. It's overall area under curve that matters if you want best actual performance/acceleration over "top numbers". And as bonus, that more torque lower will also be more enjoyable in daily driving, where people on average rarely redline.
But yes, whatever the reasons, cost of ace header near end of production with added premium of csg, was just way too high. At initial prices it's higher price then that of competitors could be justified, by reasons of it also incorporating overpipe, higher the average quality, and just because #1, but imho ~ 1900 was about max it could have went for. 2.5K probably slashed potential buyers at least tenfold.