Crawford ecoblocks

[bcj]

So. Running this with sub-87 fuels in Ulaanbaatar is likely to ping holes through the tops of the pistons?

I'll pass.

[why?]

Originally Posted by conehead

Whats dumb is your comparison. A supercharger is an actual tech with real trade-offs, not a magic panacea powered by bullshit. I understand if you have bought one of these things and are feeling duped, but defending your mistake will only cause others to do the same. Crawford's own explanation for why this works is total nonsense.

Nope, you said Subaru would have thought of that. Now you say they wouldn't have. Do you get the point yet?

Obviously not because now you use the second worst argument on the internet and attack me.

Manufacturers are not omniscient. They have 1001 actual things they have to worry about. They do not make perfect cars. If they did no one would ever mod them.

[mrg666]

Even if they pay me, I wouldn't put those absurd contraptions on my engine.

[conehead]

Originally Posted by why?

Nope, you said Subaru would have thought of that. Now you say they wouldn't have. Do you get the point yet?

Obviously not because now you use the second worst argument on the internet and attack me.

Manufacturers are not omniscient. They have 1001 actual things they have to worry about. They do not make perfect cars. If they did no one would ever mod them.

I did not say that at all, I'm not sure that you are capable of making an actual argument. Subaru could place the MAF anywhere they want, placing it out of the airstream to intentionally get bad readings was obviously not a good idea. Its ok though, Crawford needs customers like you. I guess we found the guy who gives those great testimonials. How does this compare to your Fuel Shark?

[x808drifter]

Originally Posted by conehead

Just ask yourself why Subaru, with all of its R&D expertise, did not design the car this way. Do you think they would sacrifice any tiny amount of performance or fuel economy be leaving out a little plastic donut?

Straight implies that the OEM makes the car the best it can be.

Originally Posted by conehead

Whats dumb is your comparison. A supercharger is an actual tech with real trade-offs, not a magic panacea powered by bullshit. .

Then why, according to your other post, wasn't on the car to begin with?

And like someone else said, why are there tunes that can add power and in some cases get you better MPG too.


How about we adjust that "dumb comparison" of the supercharger and go with something already on the car.

Why didn't Subaru/Toyota "with all of its R&D expertise" make a better header from the get go?


See where we're going with this?

[why?]

Originally Posted by conehead

Whats dumb is your comparison. A supercharger is an actual tech with real trade-offs, not a magic panacea powered by bullshit. I understand if you have bought one of these things and are feeling duped, but defending your mistake will only cause others to do the same. Crawford's own explanation for why this works is total nonsense.

Originally Posted by conehead

I did not say that at all, I'm not sure that you are capable of making an actual argument. Subaru could place the MAF anywhere they want, placing it out of the airstream to intentionally get bad readings was obviously not a good idea. Its ok though, Crawford needs customers like you. I guess we found the guy who gives those great testimonials. How does this compare to your Fuel Shark?

What are you a six year old? Seriously my little niece comes up with better attacks. You are so clueless and delusional you believe the bullshit you spoon feed yourself.

My argument is you are an imbecile, and you've proven it by ignoring what I actually write. Good job on that.

Your argument is that Subaru is the be all end all and makes everything so perfect even God couldn't improve on it. The fact you cannot admit the idiocy of that is incredible.

The fact that your words are drivel and you are so insecure about them you have to hide that by attacking like a child doesn't help your argument. It just proves you are a clueless fool.

[conehead]

Originally Posted by x808drifter

Straight implies that the OEM makes the car the best it can be.


Then why, according to your other post, wasn't on the car to begin with?

And like someone else said, why are there tunes that can add power and in some cases get you better MPG too.


How about we adjust that "dumb comparison" of the supercharger and go with something already on the car.

Why didn't Subaru/Toyota "with all of its R&D expertise" make a better header from the get go?


See where we're going with this?

Originally Posted by why?

What are you a six year old? Seriously my little niece comes up with better attacks. You are so clueless and delusional you believe the bullshit you spoon feed yourself.

My argument is you are an imbecile, and you've proven it by ignoring what I actually write. Good job on that.

Your argument is that Subaru is the be all end all and makes everything so perfect even God couldn't improve on it. The fact you cannot admit the idiocy of that is incredible.

The fact that your words are drivel and you are so insecure about them you have to hide that by attacking like a child doesn't help your argument. It just proves you are a clueless fool.

Wow, you guys are slow. I will use your own example and try to break it into soft little bites for you. A supercharger has TRADE-OFFS, it makes more power but has downsides like cost, heat, noise, reliability, etc. A manufacturer has to weigh these issues in their design. Go ahead and tell us what the trade-off would be to a little piece of plastic that supposedly creates more power and fuel economy with no downside. There is no free lunch.



Or think of it this way, if this was some real tech breakthrough every OEM would be tripping over themselves to be paying Crawford for the patent. Why don't they? How is moving a sensor away from the thing it is supposed to sense better?



Or how about Crawford's own advertising, you can't even read it with a straight face:
Familiar with a cold air intake? Those increase the volume of the intake, subsequently pulling the sensor out of the air stream. The Eco-Block does the same exact thing, but does so by utilizing a spacer to pull the sensor out of the air stream. The benefits you receive with the Eco-Block vs. a cold air intake:
- A fraction of the price: $50 vs. hundreds.
- Maintains smaller intake volume, maintaining air velocity. The larger volume from an aftermarket cold air intake slows the air down, creating lag.
- Keeps the stock air box / intake in place, which keeps your car smog legal and warranty safe.
- Does not require a tune to maximize it's performance.




You are basically using the same tactics as a Flat Earther, you make false equivalencies to to try and disprove reality, but you can not actually explain why your own theory is valid.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by conehead

Wow, you guys are slow. I will use your own example and try to break it into soft little bites for you. A supercharger has TRADE-OFFS, it makes more power but has downsides like cost, heat, noise, reliability, etc. A manufacturer has to weigh these issues in their design. Go ahead and tell us what the trade-off would be to a little piece of plastic that supposedly creates more power and fuel economy with no downside. There is no free lunch.



Or think of it this way, if this was some real tech breakthrough every OEM would be tripping over themselves to be paying Crawford for the patent. Why don't they? How is moving a sensor away from the thing it is supposed to sense better?



Or how about Crawford's own advertising, you can't even read it with a straight face:
Familiar with a cold air intake? Those increase the volume of the intake, subsequently pulling the sensor out of the air stream. The Eco-Block does the same exact thing, but does so by utilizing a spacer to pull the sensor out of the air stream. The benefits you receive with the Eco-Block vs. a cold air intake:
- A fraction of the price: $50 vs. hundreds.
- Maintains smaller intake volume, maintaining air velocity. The larger volume from an aftermarket cold air intake slows the air down, creating lag.
- Keeps the stock air box / intake in place, which keeps your car smog legal and warranty safe.
- Does not require a tune to maximize it's performance.




You are basically using the same tactics as a Flat Earther, you make false equivalencies to to try and disprove reality, but you can not actually explain why your own theory is valid.

You better check yourself buddy.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

I bet the admins are eating popcorn watching this as well.


The name calling go on is hilarious.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by weederr33

You better check yourself buddy.

Originally Posted by conehead

Wow, you guys are slow. I will use your own example and try to break it into soft little bites for you. A supercharger has TRADE-OFFS, it makes more power but has downsides like cost, heat, noise, reliability, etc. A manufacturer has to weigh these issues in their design. Go ahead and tell us what the trade-off would be to a little piece of plastic that supposedly creates more power and fuel economy with no downside. There is no free lunch.
Or think of it this way, if this was some real tech breakthrough every OEM would be tripping over themselves to be paying Crawford for the patent. Why don't they? How is moving a sensor away from the thing it is supposed to sense better?
Or how about Crawford's own advertising, you can't even read it with a straight face:
Familiar with a cold air intake? Those increase the volume of the intake, subsequently pulling the sensor out of the air stream. The Eco-Block does the same exact thing, but does so by utilizing a spacer to pull the sensor out of the air stream. The benefits you receive with the Eco-Block vs. a cold air intake:
- A fraction of the price: $50 vs. hundreds.
- Maintains smaller intake volume, maintaining air velocity. The larger volume from an aftermarket cold air intake slows the air down, creating lag.
- Keeps the stock air box / intake in place, which keeps your car smog legal and warranty safe.
- Does not require a tune to maximize it's performance.

Originally Posted by why?

What are you a six year old? Seriously my little niece comes up with better attacks. You are so clueless and delusional you believe the bullshit you spoon feed yourself.

My argument is you are an imbecile, and you've proven it by ignoring what I actually write. Good job on that.

Your argument is that Subaru is the be all end all and makes everything so perfect even God couldn't improve on it. The fact you cannot admit the idiocy of that is incredible.

The fact that your words are drivel and you are so insecure about them you have to hide that by attacking like a child doesn't help your argument. It just proves you are a clueless fool.

Originally Posted by x808drifter

Straight implies that the OEM makes the car the best it can be.


Then why, according to your other post, wasn't on the car to begin with?

And like someone else said, why are there tunes that can add power and in some cases get you better MPG too.


How about we adjust that "dumb comparison" of the supercharger and go with something already on the car.

Why didn't Subaru/Toyota "with all of its R&D expertise" make a better header from the get go?


See where we're going with this?

Originally Posted by conehead

I did not say that at all, I'm not sure that you are capable of making an actual argument. Subaru could place the MAF anywhere they want, placing it out of the airstream to intentionally get bad readings was obviously not a good idea. Its ok though, Crawford needs customers like you. I guess we found the guy who gives those great testimonials. How does this compare to your Fuel Shark?

Originally Posted by why?

Nope, you said Subaru would have thought of that. Now you say they wouldn't have. Do you get the point yet?

Obviously not because now you use the second worst argument on the internet and attack me.

Manufacturers are not omniscient. They have 1001 actual things they have to worry about. They do not make perfect cars. If they did no one would ever mod them.

If you guys read what steve99 said (who I might add knows his stuff about tunes) you'd understand that the stock tune is rich for safety reasons. What this gimmick does is crudely change the targeted engine load and in turn change targeted fuel trims by changing the position of the MAF sensor in the air stream. Which I'm sure you guys already know.



You could easily do this in romraider safer than moving the MAF sensor. Also other values edited as well to ensure safety, and helping assuage the torque dip, get more HP, smoother engine running etc Subaru and Toyota could've easily done this in the tunes as we know, but as always left power on the table for the car to work in ALL jurisdictions and random fuel types, that's the trade-off as well as programming time and cost for them as a company.
@conehead I think you misunderstood that @why? was not defending this product, he was simply questioning your statement:

"Just ask yourself why Subaru, with all of its R&D expertise, did not design the car this way. Do you think they would sacrifice any tiny amount of performance or fuel economy be leaving out a little plastic donut?"

We know for a fact they sacrificed a lot of performance at the cost of fuel economy and emissions, and were a bit too liberal in economy than necessary in there tunes and engine design. Thats why things like a Stage 1 OFT tune or Delicious ecutek stage 1 tune aren't sacrificing mpg or emissions but are adding 10 whp and making the engine run smoother and such. Simply because tuners are spending more time on the ECU than the factory could've in most environments.



The gist and end all of this thread should be thus:

1) Crawford has been sketchy on a lot of forums and bad mouthing other vendors, especially on the WRX and nasioc spaces. I don't trust them with much now, also they've been know to pay car reviewers in cases like the "300 hp subaru brz" in which they constantly talked up crawford as a company.



2) This "device" simply tricks the maf sensor. You may get meager gains depending on your fuel quality, your car most likely won't be damaged as the ECU will automatically cut timing and such to counter a lean issue, to a point. But it is a very crude way of changing fueling and timing values.


3) Avoid products like this with claims like this. Save your money and buy a tune like OFT or from an ecutek vendor, it'll be safer, run better and make more power consistently.

Important note as well, this thread is from 2014 when crawford was constantly deploying products for this car and other vehicles. We know a lot more about this car than before.

[conehead]

Amen to that FRSBRZGT86FAN. If you want to push the margins of your timing and fuel trims, do so with a tune and accept the possible consequences. This snake oil product is sold for many vehicles, with the same miracle-cure-all claims for all of them. I first saw it on my truck forum and they had the same problem of novice enthusiasts snapping it up and bragging about the placebo effect of it. My sole argument is that forums should not be complicit in advertising it. Unfortunately, there is always some sucker who loves it like a televangelist and spreads the word.

[why?]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

If you guys read what steve99 said (who I might add knows his stuff about tunes) you'd understand that the stock tune is rich for safety reasons. What this gimmick does is crudely change the targeted engine load and in turn change targeted fuel trims by changing the position of the MAF sensor in the air stream. Which I'm sure you guys already know.

You could easily do this in romraider safer than moving the MAF sensor. Also other values edited as well to ensure safety, and helping assuage the torque dip, get more HP, smoother engine running etc Subaru and Toyota could've easily done this in the tunes as we know, but as always left power on the table for the car to work in ALL jurisdictions and random fuel types, that's the trade-off as well as programming time and cost for them as a company.
@conehead I think you misunderstood that @why? was not defending this product, he was simply questioning your statement:

"Just ask yourself why Subaru, with all of its R&D expertise, did not design the car this way. Do you think they would sacrifice any tiny amount of performance or fuel economy be leaving out a little plastic donut?"

We know for a fact they sacrificed a lot of performance at the cost of fuel economy and emissions, and were a bit too liberal in economy than necessary in there tunes and engine design. Thats why things like a Stage 1 OFT tune or Delicious ecutek stage 1 tune aren't sacrificing mpg or emissions but are adding 10 whp and making the engine run smoother and such. Simply because tuners are spending more time on the ECU than the factory could've in most environments.
The gist and end all of this thread should be thus:
1) Crawford has been sketchy on a lot of forums and bad mouthing other vendors, especially on the WRX and nasioc spaces. I don't trust them with much now, also they've been know to pay car reviewers in cases like the "300 hp subaru brz" in which they constantly talked up crawford as a company.
2) This "device" simply tricks the maf sensor. You may get meager gains depending on your fuel quality, your car most likely won't be damaged as the ECU will automatically cut timing and such to counter a lean issue, to a point. But it is a very crude way of changing fueling and timing values.
3) Avoid products like this with claims like this. Save your money and buy a tune like OFT or from an ecutek vendor, it'll be safer, run better and make more power consistently.
Important note as well, this thread is from 2014 when crawford was constantly deploying products for this car and other vehicles. We know a lot more about this car than before.

Exactly. I love making fun of people who say stupid crap.

Originally Posted by conehead

Its all snake oil. Just ask yourself why Subaru, with all of its R&D expertise, did not design the car this way.

You still said this. You still think Subaru is the be all end all of everything. You still cannot admit you are wrong. You said, "Its all snake oil." I never said that, you did. Literally everything I have mentioned is very much a part of, "Its all." I'm still going to laugh in your face about it.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by conehead

Amen to that FRSBRZGT86FAN. If you want to push the margins of your timing and fuel trims, do so with a tune and accept the possible consequences. This snake oil product is sold for many vehicles, with the same miracle-cure-all claims for all of them. I first saw it on my truck forum and they had the same problem of novice enthusiasts snapping it up and bragging about the placebo effect of it. My sole argument is that forums should not be complicit in advertising it. Unfortunately, there is always some sucker who loves it like a televangelist and spreads the word.

On your point the consequences with a stage 1 or stage 2 tune (i.e. header and tune) are nearly non existant on our car, you really lose nothing.

Second, the forums really weren't complicit, Crawford paid their vendor dues and have/had legitimate products , like catch cans, suspension stuff, exhaust systems turbo kits etc. They registered and such like any vendor should've. The last time they've been on the forum is 2015, and if you notice on their name they are definitely no longer a registered vendor on the site:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12718
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/ad/ad_thesponsors.php
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13494

The current vendors on the site are pretty trustworthy and I've used a lot of their products and they follow the rules and stick to their sections.



As for crawford the two people who praised it mysteriously haven't posted in a real long time and had a incredibly short post history:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/sear...rchid=19257458
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/sear...rchid=19257463

Also you necroed a 6 month old thread, so you've increased the visibility of this post quite a bit

Originally Posted by why?

You still said this. You still think Subaru is the be all end all of everything. You still cannot admit you are wrong. You said, "Its all snake oil." I never said that, you did. Literally everything I have mentioned is very much a part of, "Its all." I'm still going to laugh in your face about it.

I'd leave it be, but he's still seemingly thinking your defending this product. He also hasn't even mentioned why he thinks Subaru knew so much .

[conehead]

Originally Posted by why?

You still said this. You still think Subaru is the be all end all of everything. You still cannot admit you are wrong. You said, "Its all snake oil." I never said that, you did. Literally everything I have mentioned is very much a part of, "Its all." I'm still going to laugh in your face about it.

"Its all" is obviously the Eco Block and its supposed logic. You, for no particular reason, decided to claim that i think that about all performance mods in general. Then you decided to keep trying to put words in my mouth, like that I apparently think Subaru is god now. Every part of a car design and every mod is a trade-off. If this thing was real, with no downside and essentially no cost, it would already be on every car. The same goes for fuel magnets and all the other scams. Your argument is basically that other mods are good so this one must be too. You can go laugh in the mirror. If you really think "this is the dumbest argument the internet", you must have just found the internet.

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

On your point the consequences with a stage 1 or stage 2 tune (i.e. header and tune) are nearly non existant on our car, you really lose nothing.

Its always a trade, you may just lose things you don't care about but the OEM had to, like emissions. OEMs also don't optimize each individual car, but you can for a price. I have no problem with tuning and never said otherwise, and would do it too if it was allowed in my autox class.

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

As for crawford the two people who praised it mysteriously haven't posted in a real long time and had a incredibly short post history:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/sear...rchid=19257458
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/sear...rchid=19257463

Also you necroed a 6 month old thread, so you've increased the visibility of this post quite a bit

Yeah maybe, haha. I searched it out after seeing Crawford actively posting about it right now on my other forum. The last post here was asking for opinions. It seems like bad business anyway, it just makes me suspicious of anything they sell or claim.