CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

With the OEM crash bolts maxed and the SS1 camber plates in the center position, I was right at -2.2.

- Andrew

Results from my alignment today weren't awesome.

With the stock bolts installed (16mm upper and 14mm lower), slotted upper holes maxed out and camber plates maxed out, the most negative front camber the tech could achieve was -1.9. That in itself wasn't totally unexpected.

Since I didn't have the OEM "crash bolts" (I.E. the 14mm lower bolts to install in the upper holes), I instructed him to zero out the camber plates and re-use my SPC 14mm camber bolts in the 14mm lower holes they were designed for.

Instead, he put them in the slotted upper holes and took a LOT of messing around to get things locked down (as you'd expect with an undersized 14mm camber bolt in a 16mm hole, never mind the slotted hole on the struts). Meanwhile, I'm sitting in the waiting area wondering what the heck was taking so long.

He was, of course, able to get LOTS of negative camber (I think with both the bolts and plates maxed out, it was around -3.9), and had to dial things back at the camber plates, ending up at +0.5 degrees from 0 on the camber plates to hit my -2.2 degree target.

Nearly $400 later, he's "confident" the bolts won't slip in the slotted upper holes, but I don't trust them.

So, now I'm torn.

My gut tells me to pull those camber bolts out ASAP for safety reasons, so for right now I'm going to put the stock 16mm bolts back in and max out the slots and camber plates until I decide where to go with this.

I do have my own ideas on this, but I'm looking for other people's takes on which is better and why:

• Option A - Stock 16mm round bolts in 16mm slotted upper holes + SPC 14mm camber bolts in 14mm lower holes, or...
• Option B - OEM 14mm round "crash bolts" in 16mm slotted upper holes + stock 14mm bolts in lower holes

Either way, I'm going to have to get another alignment done to be confident that my front toe isn't f'd up, so there's more money I'm having to spend twice...

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

Nearly $400 later, he's "confident" the bolts won't slip in the slotted upper holes, but I don't trust them.

I think most people use the bottom bolt in the top hole to save money. If you're already $400 in why not get both sets of camber bolts (16mm and 14mm)?

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

I think most people use the bottom bolt in the top hole to save money. If you're already $400 in why not get both sets of camber bolts (16mm and 14mm)?

For my use case, I wouldn't do that because I don't have a need for that much camber adjustment range.

The least expensive option at this point is just to re-use my 14mm camber bolts in the bottom and return to the stock 16mm bolts in the top, but the 14mm OEM (round) bolts to use in the slotted top holes are only $16 CAD (for both), should get the camber I need (based on Andrew's feedback a few posts above) while still allowing lots of scope for more with the camber plates, and would be less problematic to set up than having adjustment at both knuckle holes (upper with the slotted tabs on the coilovers and bottom with camber bolts).

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

For my use case, I wouldn't do that because I don't have a need for that much camber adjustment range.

In that case I'd put camber bolts on the top hole. Camber bolts for the bottom hole are undersized while for the top hole they are not (the OEM top bolt has a 16mm shoulder but the threaded portion is the same as the camber bolt).
There was some discussion about that in a few threads here, people being concerned with slippage or breakage with a bottom camber bolt. Not sure if that is a real concern, though - I'm using top and bottom camber bolts (SPC 81280 and 81260) and they are fine on the street and on the track (had a mild off-track with them and hit some nasty curbs without issues). Other people use them as well (typically putting the OEM bottom bolt in the top hole).

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

In that case I'd put camber bolts on the top hole. Camber bolts for the bottom hole are undersized while for the top hole they are not (the OEM top bolt has a 16mm shoulder but the threaded portion is the same as the camber bolt).
There was some discussion about that in a few threads here, people being concerned with slippage or breakage with a bottom camber bolt. Not sure if that is a real concern, though - I'm using top and bottom camber bolts (SPC 81280 and 81260) and they are fine on the street and on the track (had a mild off-track with them and hit some nasty curbs without issues). Other people use them as well (typically putting the OEM bottom bolt in the top hole).

The 81260's are what I have - the 14mm camber bolts for the bottom holes. I ran those for about a year on the street with no issues.

IGNORE: So are you saying that the 81280 and 81260 are basically identical as far as the shaft is concerned, and the 81280 just has a larger head, or...?

EDIT: I do recall when I swapped the coilovers in that the upper bolt was the same shaft diameter and thread as the lower one, just with the larger shoulder - I.E. the nuts were interchangeable. But that means that the top hole in the knuckle was 16mm diameter because the whole "shoulder" section is what is in there. They also only fit into the coilovers one way because of that - I.E. on the driver's side, they have to go front to back, and on the passenger's side, the opposite because only one side is made large enough diameter to accommodate the larger shoulder.

So, the 81280's should be a larger shaft diameter, likely close to a 14mm round bolt, whereas the 81260's shaft diameter is likely something like 12mm - that's what I think you're saying here. Got it.

This further reinforces my feeling that I need to get the 81260's out of the upper holes ASAP, because they are too small for the hole in the knuckle.

It does, however, suggest that the 81280 in the upper hole might be a superior solution to the OEM crash bolt because the cam shape would more completely fill the hole in the knuckle while still offering a similar amount of camber adjustment. Hmm...

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

So are you saying that the 81280 and 81260 are basically identical as far as the shaft is concerned, and the 81280 just has a larger head, or...?

No, I meant that the OEM top bolt has the same thread as 81280. The difference is that the OEM top bolt has a full round shoulder while 81280 has an oval shoulder.
OEM bottom bolt is a regular bolt without a shoulder. 81260 has smaller threaded diameter than the OEM bottom bolt and an oval shoulder (otherwise it wouldn't provide adjustment).

To me this means that 81260 (bottom camber bolt) is thinner than the OEM bottom bolt and potentially weaker. In practice it might not matter, but if I was in a position of only using one camber bolt I would prefer top.

Both bottom and top OEM bolts have the same thread and their nuts are interchangeable (top bolt is to the left, bottom bolt is to the right). The SPC camber bolts are on the car, so can't take a picture to compare them.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

No, I meant that the OEM top bolt has the same thread as 81280. The difference is that the OEM top bolt has a full round shoulder while 81280 has an oval shoulder.
OEM bottom bolt is a regular bolt without a shoulder. 81260 has smaller threaded diameter than the OEM bottom bolt and an oval shoulder (otherwise it wouldn't provide adjustment).

To me this means that 81260 (bottom camber bolt) is thinner than the OEM bottom bolt and potentially weaker. In practice it might not matter, but if I was in a position of only using one camber bolt I would prefer top.

Both bottom and top OEM bolts have the same thread and their nuts are interchangeable (top bolt is to the left, bottom bolt is to the right). The SPC camber bolts are on the car, so can't take a picture to compare them.

Yup - just edited my response above as you were posting this.

EDIT: So for now I swapped back in the stock bolts (top and rear), maxed out the negative camber with the slotted holes on the coilovers at the knuckle and maxed out the camber plates.

Eyeballing it, it looks like there's more negative camber in front than in the rear (which would put it at something beyond -2.3 degrees), but if the shop was right, that's just wishful thinking - they said that combination was around -1.9 degrees. I don't think my eyeball has that fine a calibration...LOL.

I'll get the alignment checked again elsewhere, make sure the front toe is still zero (if not, have it adjusted so it is) and see if I still need more front negative camber.

If so, after thinking further on the feedback from Ohio Enthusiast above, I plan to go with the SPC 81280 or Mevotech MS50201 16mm camber bolts in the top holes to keep it to a single adjustment point at the knuckle and have the *slight* added security of the 16mm cam spanning the entire hole in the knuckle vs. the OEM 14mm round crash bolts which would just be free-floating.

[Racecomp Engineering]

You should definitely be able to get more than -1.9 with OEM bolts and the camber plates. Shop or technician is doing something wrong, or measuring incorrectly.

- Andrew

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

You should definitely be able to get more than -1.9 with OEM bolts and the camber plates. Shop or technician is doing something wrong, or measuring incorrectly.

- Andrew

To be clear - STOCK bolts (16mm round on top, 14mm round on bottom), not OEM crash bolts. All the same, I was still quite surprised that was all they got with the camber plates and the slots maxed out.

I wasn't allowed to go into the shop area, so didn't see exactly how they had it set up at that point in the process and can't say for sure whether they actually had the camber plates all the way negative.

Again, to my eye, it looks like the front is at least as negatively cambered as the rear, but I've learned before that my eyes can deceive me. I guess I'll find out when I get it measured again!

[bradsm87]

I've always loosened and re-tightened ALL rubber bushes that get twisted after changing ride height any more than minor adjustments (eg when installing coilovers). I was surprised to see that most "coilover install guide" do not mention loosening and re-tightening rubber bushes in order for them to not be permanently slightly twisted at rest height.

Do you guys loosten and re-tighten all rubber bush mounting bolts after installing coilovers to reset them to their un-twisted state?

A side question:

How much rear camber can you change by loosening all the rear suspension bolts, having someone (or a jack) hold the camber hard one way and tightening the bolts? Mine has more camber one side than the other which is common but I'm thinking I might be able to even it up a bit by doing this.

[strat61caster]

I found zero difference in tightening under load, you might get a tenth of a degree with loosening and retightening.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I found zero difference in tightening under load, you might get a tenth of a degree with loosening and retightening.

It's less about added range, and more about eliminating torsional stresses in the bushings at static ride height. Otherwise known as bind.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

It's less about added range, and more about eliminating torsional stresses in the bushings at static ride height. Otherwise known as bind.

It was in response to my second question 👍

[Tokay444]

AH.