JDL 4-2-1 Header Dyno results!

[EvolutionRevolution]

Originally Posted by solidONE

"NO everything you say is NO!" lmao Y'all should have seen the deleted posts. "Trololol"

The 4-2-1's, some of them at least, actually add a bump of torque where the dip is whereas the UEL seem to flatten them out.

For instance, my Long tube 4-2-1 pipe actually peaks right after where the dip used to be (165 ft lbs on E85 vs Stocks 120ish ft lbs. on 91) It's like driving a different car. Vetack like.

Interesting on the "new car feeling" ..I wonder how much of that might be the tune? ..

I put on an HKS 4-2-1 header after already having a stg 2 tune on my car. Didn't really notice anything per butt dyno. The same tune with STOCK header felt like very linear power.

Actually switching HKS out for a Gruppe-S here shortly just to see how I like the UEL..

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by EvolutionRevolution

Interesting on the "new car feeling" ..I wonder how much of that might be the tune? ..

I put on an HKS 4-2-1 header after already having a stg 2 tune on my car. Didn't really notice anything per butt dyno. The same tune with STOCK header felt like very linear power.

Actually switching HKS out for a Gruppe-S here shortly just to see how I like the UEL..

Same with the Tomei 4-2-1. It's an awesome kit for the price, but that annoying dip is still there. I traded for the long tube, and I'm a better person for it. I love myself more now.

Tune goes hand in hand with the pipes. it should be one thing. "Tune-der" "Headune?"

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

What exactly is a long tube header? 4-1?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

What exactly is a long tube header? 4-1?

Long tube refers to the length of the runner tubes. It can be in any configuration. Changing the length changes the "sweet spot" Think of it like a musical instrument. It technically a fancy horn for your engine exhaust

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Long tube refers to the length of the runner tubes. It can be in any configuration. Changing the length changes the "sweet spot" Think of it like a musical instrument. It technically a fancy horn for your engine exhaust

So what are some examples of long tube headers?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

So what are some examples of long tube headers?

Nameless 4-2-1, P-Tuning 4-1, all of ace's lineup, if I'm not mistaken. And another, I believe, made by a local company oh.. PPE 4-1. I'm not sure why people are drag racing this car, but its reportedly does quite well for that application. Also the JDL pipes are kinda long.

[Mike_ZN6]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Nameless 4-2-1, P-Tuning 4-1, all of ace's lineup, if I'm not mistaken. And another, I believe, made by a local company oh.. PPE 4-1. I'm not sure why people are drag racing this car, but its reportedly does quite well for that application. Also the JDL pipes are kinda long.

I thought the only true long tube headers for this car are the Ace and Nameless. The Nameless extends the runner length by curving the pipes upward in front of the engine by the intake/fans before curving back down towards the exhaust. The Ace extends the runner length by replacing the overpipe with a continuation of the header. The Nameless design has been known to cause heat issues including affecting intake temps and melting fans.

[solidONE]

PPE


P-Tuing:


Nameless:


Pretty long, what she said.

"Michael Schumi is NOT dead how can you.."

Exactly, young padawan.

[86TOYO2k17]

Technically any 4-1 EL header on this car is “long tube” header.
Nameless is not a long tube header it has short 4-2 runners, it has longer than normal 2-1 runners compared to other 4-2-1 designs that don’t utilize the overpipe like ace.
Longer front runners 4-1 or 4-2 increase power at the top end
Shortet front runners 4-1 or 4-2 increase power at midrange
Longer 2-1 runners increase mid range,
Shorter 2-1 runners increase top end.
4-1 EL has long front runners for top end and no 2-1 to have much mid range improvement.
4-1 UEL has 2 longer front runners and 2 shorter front runners so it’s mediocre at both top end and midrange.
4-2-1 (That don’t utilize overpipe) have short 4-2 front runners for midrange, and depending on secondary 2-1 runner length can tweak top end or mid range. Nameless and JDL have longer 2-1 runners so should both have good midrange, but lack top end.
Ace header is able to have the 4-2 front runner length the same length or longer compared to other 4-1 EL headers for great top end and then utilizing the overpipe can tweak the mid range or top end more, 150 has shorter 2-1 overpipe for more top end, and 350 has longer 2-1 for mid range, 250 is a nice sweet spot for both. With using the OP in the header design you can essentially combine the best of all worlds and create a no compromise header.

[solidONE]

Everything is relative.. "medium-tube header?" "Longish-tube" JDL is long-ish

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Technically any 4-1 EL header on this car is “long tube” header.
Nameless is not a long tube header it has short 4-2 runners, it has longer than normal 2-1 runners compared to other 4-2-1 designs that don’t utilize the overpipe like ace.
Longer front runners 4-1 or 4-2 increase power at the top end
Shortet front runners 4-1 or 4-2 increase power at midrange
Longer 2-1 runners increase mid range,
Shorter 2-1 runners increase top end.
4-1 EL has long front runners for top end and no 2-1 to have much mid range improvement.
4-1 UEL has 2 longer front runners and 2 shorter front runners so it’s mediocre at both top end and midrange.
4-2-1 (That don’t utilize overpipe) have short 4-2 front runners for midrange, and depending on secondary 2-1 runner length can tweak top end or mid range. Nameless and JDL have longer 2-1 runners so should both have good midrange, but lack top end.
Ace header is able to have the 4-2 front runner length the same length or longer compared to other 4-1 EL headers for great top end and then utilizing the overpipe can tweak the mid range or top end more, 150 has shorter 2-1 overpipe for more top end, and 350 has longer 2-1 for mid range, 250 is a nice sweet spot for both. With using the OP in the header design you can essentially combine the best of all worlds and create a no compromise header.

Kinda funny then that the nameless has pretty poor midrange, especially compared to the ACE.

The Nameless design has been known to cause heat issues including affecting intake temps and melting fans.

My IAT's look normal. I have melted the rear part the the fan shroud a tiny bit, but it's not noticeable unless you really look for it.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Kinda funny then that the nameless has pretty poor midrange, especially compared to the ACE.

Pretty solid mid range on dynos I’ve seen. Here are two random ones for nameless 4-2-1. Huge mid range gain not so much top end a tune+no cats is the main contributor for the top end increase not header design.

See the rest of my previous post about ace headers. Nothing really compares from a design standpoint.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Pretty solid mid range on dynos I’ve seen. Here are two random ones for nameless 4-2-1. Huge mid range gain not so much top end a tune+no cats is the main contributor for the top end increase not header design.

See the rest of my previous post about ace headers. Nothing really compares from a design standpoint.

There are a lot of hit and miss dyno's on the Nameless. I think most of it has come down to getting the AVCS right. I have run about 4 different revisions and can't get any midrange out of it. It is pretty meh on my car till about 4k and doesn't really start to feel good till 5k, which has just been street tuned. I have met others who have echo'd my experience that have had it done by a pro on the dyno. My car feels pretty similar to the curve in this thread. I don't care though as long as it pulls 4k and up I am happy.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115389

[e1_griego]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

There are a lot of hit and miss dyno's on the Nameless. I think most of it has come down to getting the AVCS right. I have run about 4 different revisions and can't get any midrange out of it. It is pretty meh on my car till about 4k and doesn't really start to feel good till 5k, which has just been street tuned. I have met others who have echo'd my experience that have had it done by a pro on the dyno. My car feels pretty similar to the curve in this thread. I don't care though as long as it pulls 4k and up I am happy.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115389

Yeah, I went from Nameless to Ace because of that.