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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 09-07-2014, 10:28 AM   #15
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http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=57906

Scroll down and read below this picture in the link


Not that I agree, but there it is.
Ok I found it. They are saying they think the engine is 10 inches too far forward and the f/r balance is 56/44. I guess Tada was lying.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:00 AM   #16
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Just buy a Prosche, it already has a Boxer pushed as far back as possible.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:31 AM   #17
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Just drive from the back seat.
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:23 PM   #18
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If I got bit by a monkey.......what kind of a shot would they need to give me?

How much do you think this building weighs?
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:53 PM   #19
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If I got bit by a monkey.......what kind of a shot would they need to give me?

How much do you think this building weighs?
Unless you tell us what species of monkey and pics of you being bitten we couldn't possibly tell you which intake is best.
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Old 09-07-2014, 08:32 PM   #20
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It might be a worthwhile thing for the turbo guys, to create some breathing space behind the radiator but for an NA setup I can't see the result being worth the trouble.
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Old 09-07-2014, 08:48 PM   #21
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Just buy a Prosche, it already has a Boxer pushed as far back as possible.
Only the carreras. The caymans and boxsters are fine.

Speaking of engine swaps, I wonder if a carrera 3.6tt could fit into our engine bay?
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Old 09-07-2014, 09:05 PM   #22
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If I got bit by a monkey.......what kind of a shot would they need to give me?
308 Winchester?
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Old 09-07-2014, 09:24 PM   #23
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The whole x/y weight distribution thing is something that gets mentioned by the marketing people as another sales point. "Ideal" for what? Formula cars are not close to 53/47. Neither are 911 type Porsches. It is just one facet of a very complex system. That figure of 53/47 says nothing about the way in which that weight is distributed. Centralised mass vs barbell. Just more pub talk.
[/rant]
It is ideal for do-ri-fu-to (drift). Having a slightly front weight bias means it is easier to control the rear sliding and more fun. If it were 50/50 or rear biased, the handling would tend to be more twitchy and the rear end could get out of shape too quickly. But the advantage of rear bias is more traction for acceleration and grip for braking. The 86 wasn't designed for pure performance, it was designed for fun.
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Old 09-07-2014, 09:32 PM   #24
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308 Winchester?
No Carlton...

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Old 09-09-2014, 01:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iBoost View Post
Hi FT86'ers,

Has anyone tried moving the stock engine further back towards the rear of the car to improve handling? (This would require shortening the transmission's shifter extension for manual cars and shortening the driveshaft = not too difficult to do) If yes, how much of a difference did you notice when driving the car?

I've read a few posts and engine swappers comment they thought the original motor is too far forward, so was curious if anyone has tried this mod or is planning to.

Thanks.


What makes you think you are going to Engineer a better handling car? Have you (or anyone) done any simulations based on moving the engine? Show me balance, stability, grip and response graphs with the engine in different locations and I might believe what some of these engine swappers think... probably not though.
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:22 PM   #26
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The current Front/Rear ratio is 53/47 and as is ideal according to the Chief Engineer Tetsuya Tada. He comments on this around 5:15. The COG isn't a problem either and any engine swapper would be raising this with nearly all engine options out there.
[/url]
He might be correct for steering feel. Certainly when you're getting on the throttle at apex coming out of a sweeper, you can feel the steering unload and steering feel degrade as weight transfers to the rear.

But for all-out performance, I would guess a 50/50 setup would be faster because of how much weight you can transfer to the drive wheels on exit. Also better braking. With low-output cars like ours though, it probably doesn't matter as much.

Quote:
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It is ideal for do-ri-fu-to (drift). Having a slightly front weight bias means it is easier to control the rear sliding and more fun. If it were 50/50 or rear biased, the handling would tend to be more twitchy and the rear end could get out of shape too quickly. But the advantage of rear bias is more traction for acceleration and grip for braking. The 86 wasn't designed for pure performance, it was designed for fun.
Yeah I've always felt the Twins were really easy to catch the oversteer on. I think it has to do with the front-biased weight distribution. The light tail steps out progressively and will fall back in place with the proper inputs. Camber-friendly, multi-link R probably helps as well.
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Old 09-09-2014, 05:29 PM   #27
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But for all-out performance, I would guess a 50/50 setup would be faster
I would love to see an engineer explain why 50/50 is optimum given all the trawling I've done suggests that more rear bias is better for performance. If you remove all the BMW marketing blurb/influence there doesn't appear to be too much factual information on why 50/50 is so beneficial.
Extreme but excellent example:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_INdbXMqsw"]Track Test: Nissan DeltaWing Driven At Road Atlanta -- /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube[/ame]

The explanation starts at 6.50
Given that the 3 variants (BRZ/86/FR-S) all have different f/r spring rate ratios the optimum distribution hypothesis is immediately dismissed.
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Old 09-09-2014, 05:43 PM   #28
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I would love to see an engineer explain why 50/50 is optimum given all the trawling I've done suggests that more rear bias is better for performance. If you remove all the BMW marketing blurb/influence there doesn't appear to be too much factual information on why 50/50 is so beneficial.
Extreme but excellent example:
Yeah just to clarify, I meant that 50/50 would be faster than the Twins' 54/46.

Like you, I also suspect (although haven't seen it quantified) that a moderate rearward balance would be even better for pure performance. Something like the Cayman's 46/54 or even the Carrera's 38/62. You get:

- more even weight distribution under braking
- more rearward weight distribution under acceleration
- less weight upfront for better turn-in

The main downside I see is, if the rear end did let go, it would be a wild ride, as it was with the old 911's. But that might more specifically be a function of the polar moment of inertia rather than weight distribution. If you could centralize the weight sufficiently, you could minimize this downside.
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