4th gen ND Mazda MX-5 Miata

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by abraxis

Lol, dream on. If it ever comes with 180hp it'll be another 3-4 years at least. More like 150-160 to start or after a year.

I'll reserve judgement until third parties produce actual curb weights and not magical factory dry weights like Alfa and Corvette.

Mazda designers have already said that the US market will not accept less power in the new MX-5 so while 180 might be a stretch I fully expect it will be 170HP at 2260lbs. 13.29 lb/hp will be competitive in this niche.

[Miniata]

Originally Posted by abraxis

Lol, dream on. If it ever comes with 180hp it'll be another 3-4 years at least. More like 150-160 to start or after a year.

I'll reserve judgement until third parties produce actual curb weights and not magical factory dry weights like Alfa and Corvette.

We'll see. Very soon. The regular Skyactiv 2.0L makes 155 hp right now, it is supposed to be warmed over for the Miata, so I'd expect at least 170-175 hp, if not 180.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Mazda designers have already said that the US market will not accept less power in the new MX-5 so while 180 might be a stretch I fully expect it will be 170HP at 2260lbs. 13.29 lb/hp will be competitive in this niche.

Which designers? Are they different than these designers?

"We will be able to use a smaller, less powerful, more fuel-efficient engine because we will have shaved so much off the current car’s curb weight," insisted one engineer at the launch in Tokyo on September 4.

Our source also said the first all-new MX-5 chassis since the original (the second-generation MX-5 was based largely on the first, while the third shared its roots with the RX-8) will bring vastly improved dynamics.

The first rear-drive application of Mazda's latest SKYACTIV chassis, which could also underpin other models including the long-rumored 2017 RX-7, is not only smaller but carries revised suspension and, for the first time in an MX-5, electric power steering.

“A repositioned drivetrain will deliver better weight balance and improved handling dynamics, giving you a better driving experience. And believe me, you will not notice the drop in power from the current version.”

http://wot.motortrend.com/1409_2016_..._revealed.html

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by abraxis

Which designers? Are they different than these designers?

"We will be able to use a smaller, less powerful, more fuel-efficient engine because we will have shaved so much off the current car’s curb weight," insisted one engineer at the launch in Tokyo on September 4.

Our source also said the first all-new MX-5 chassis since the original (the second-generation MX-5 was based largely on the first, while the third shared its roots with the RX-8) will bring vastly improved dynamics.

The first rear-drive application of Mazda's latest SKYACTIV chassis, which could also underpin other models including the long-rumored 2017 RX-7, is not only smaller but carries revised suspension and, for the first time in an MX-5, electric power steering.

“A repositioned drivetrain will deliver better weight balance and improved handling dynamics, giving you a better driving experience. And believe me, you will not notice the drop in power from the current version.”

http://wot.motortrend.com/1409_2016_..._revealed.html

That same article you are quoting...

It also says...

"U.S. specs are yet to be announced"

This is the European engine that they are talking about.

A lot of cars have a down-rated engine for Europe due to the $8 a gallon (they pay by the liter) and the taxes on engine displacement.

The new Miata will be hovering around 175hp

Will the new Miata be a fire-breathing monster? Of course not.

But it will also improve on the performance of the NC Miata.

There have been multiple sources about the Miata before it was ever announced. A few of the people on Miata.net who were correct in predicting all the other things (curb weight and release date) seem to be claiming 175hp. There may be an option for different fuels (regular vs premium).

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Atropine

That same article you are quoting...

It also says...

"U.S. specs are yet to be announced"

This is the European engine that they are talking about.

A lot of cars have a down-rated engine for Europe due to the $8 a gallon (they pay by the liter) and the taxes on engine displacement.

The new Miata will be hovering around 175hp

Will the new Miata be a fire-breathing monster? Of course not.

But it will also improve on the performance of the NC Miata.

There have been multiple sources about the Miata before it was ever announced. A few of the people on Miata.net who were correct in predicting all the other things (curb weight and release date) seem to be claiming 175hp. There may be an option for different fuels (regular vs premium).

Obviously US specs haven't been released yet, that's why the confusion ranging from 130-180hp. Do we even know that claimed weight is curb weight and not dry weight that will make it to the US? My guess was around 150-160hp if you read my posts. Not 130hp or 180hp which seems too aggressive given the sentiment presented by the 'designers' comfort with having less power than the current model due to reduced mass. I can buy the idea of 170hp, not 180hp for the first year.

But I still haven't seen anything to support that from the actual designers cited. That's why I asked...

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by abraxis

But I still haven't seen anything to support that from the actual designers cited. That's why I asked...

I would have to dig for the article that quoted that designer. There may already be a link to it in this thread. If I remember correctly, it was from either the design team in CA or the head of Mazda in the US. Frankly, right now I do not want to take the time to find it. You can dismiss it as hearsay if you wish or you can give it the same credit as these other articles that you are citing that talk about EU and AUS models.

Time will tell which is correct.

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by Rampage

I would have to dig for the article that quoted that designer. There may already be a link to it in this thread. If I remember correctly, it was from either the design team in CA or the head of Mazda in the US. Frankly, right now I do not want to take the time to find it. You can dismiss it as hearsay if you wish or you can give it the same credit as these other articles that you are citing that talk about EU and AUS models.

Time will tell which is correct.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...-mx-5-revealed


I think it was an unnamed "source" from an autocar article that said the U.S. wouldn't accept lower power:




"So far Mazda will only admit to power being provided by a newly developed SkyActiv engine that will be longitudinally mounted in the nose. However, there are likely to be two new direct-injection petrol engines on offer, one a 1.5-litre and one a 2.0-litre.
Both are reworked versions of engines already powering the company’s hatchbacks and are likely to offer around 140bhp and 180bhp respectively. This represents a small power advantage over current models – our source admitted that the "US market wouldn’t accept less power" – but with the weight savings they promises superior power-to-weight ratios, extra performance and considerable fuel economy and CO2 advantages. "

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Rampage

I would have to dig for the article that quoted that designer. There may already be a link to it in this thread. If I remember correctly, it was from either the design team in CA or the head of Mazda in the US. Frankly, right now I do not want to take the time to find it. You can dismiss it as hearsay if you wish or you can give it the same credit as these other articles that you are citing that talk about EU and AUS models.

Time will tell which is correct.

No worries. No big deal to flame the internet over 10hp, lol.

[pinski]

ND engine choices revealed today on Jalopnik:

Originally Posted by Jalopnik

When the 2016 Mazda Miata was revealed just a few short weeks ago, we were short on details. In fact, we had no details. But thanks to a tipster, we can now confirm that the 2016 Mazda Miata will be powered by a 2.0 liter SKYACTIV-G engine in the USA and a 1.5 liter engine elsewhere.

This week marks the start of the Paris Motor Show, and with it is the first opportunity for the Miata to be seen on the stage at a major international auto show. It also means Mazda needs to have more news on the car to give to the hungry press.

Well, here you go. According to Mazda's press kit for the auto show, most global markets will see the 2016 Miata powered by a 1.5 liter engine (which we had already heard and really, really didn't believe... whoops!), but, and this is a first in Miata-land, the US market will have the car powered by the familiar 2.0 SKYACTIV-G that we find in the Mazda3, Mazda6, and Mazda CX-5. That appears to be our only engine choice while other markets will have a choice.

While Mazda has chosen to not reveal power specifications at this time, it seems right that we can assume the new Miata will have at least 155 horsepower and 150 pound feet of the torque. If it stays at that power level, that's a decrease of 12 horsepower and an increase of 10 pound feet of torque. The new car also weighs far less than the old car, so the power deficit won't matter.

We'll have to see if those figures stay the same, or if the horsepower is bumped up.

[strat61caster]

So from a ball park guess from what we know:

NC: ~2,500 lbs, 167 horses: 14.97 lb/hp
ND: ~2,300 lbs, 155 horses: 14.84 lb/hp
Toyobaru: ~2,800 lbs, 200 horses: 14.00 lb/hp
ND @ 167 horses: 13.77 lb/hp

If Mazda works the 2.0L over to match the outgoing NC (totally reasonable) and it's got a decent powerband (should be due to the DI) and appropriate gear selection (don't think that's been a problem for the Miata) it could be a blink or two quicker than the Toyobaru.

Worst case, it's only a hair quicker than the outgoing model. Mazda's new slogan seems to be: just enough to keep you smiling.

[juliog]

NC: 21/28 MPG (6MT)
FR-S/BRZ: 22/30 MPG (6MT)
Mazda 3: 29/40 MPG (2.0L MT)

Since the ND will be using the Mazda 3's engine and is ~500lbs lighter:

ND: 30+/40+ MPG (2.0L MT)

[thill]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

So from a ball park guess from what we know:

NC: ~2,500 lbs, 167 horses: 14.97 lb/hp
ND: ~2,300 lbs, 155 horses: 14.84 lb/hp
Toyobaru: ~2,800 lbs, 200 horses: 14.00 lb/hp
ND @ 167 horses: 13.77 lb/hp

If Mazda works the 2.0L over to match the outgoing NC (totally reasonable) and it's got a decent powerband (should be due to the DI) and appropriate gear selection (don't think that's been a problem for the Miata) it could be a blink or two quicker than the Toyobaru.

Worst case, it's only a hair quicker than the outgoing model. Mazda's new slogan seems to be: just enough to keep you smiling.

Seems about right to me. If they could have gotten 180hp (which is very doable from an NA 2.0 liter engine) the car would be noticeably quicker and would put to rest some of the complaints that the Miata has always carried (lacking in power). I know I am just dreaming here, but 180hp 170ft lbs would be perfect for this car at the advertised weight...

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by thill

Seems about right to me. If they could have gotten 180hp (which is very doable from an NA 2.0 liter engine) the car would be noticeably quicker and would put to rest some of the complaints that the Miata has always carried (lacking in power). I know I am just dreaming here, but 180hp 170ft lbs would be perfect for this car at the advertised weight...

Well, if it's a 2L NA, it won't make 170ft-lb. More like 130-145, depending on how aggressively they tune it and the design goals. That having been said, 130-145ft-lb could be perfectly fine, given the right gearbox.

[thill]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Well, if it's a 2L NA, it won't make 170ft-lb. More like 130-145, depending on how aggressively they tune it and the design goals. That having been said, 130-145ft-lb could be perfectly fine, given the right gearbox.

Yeah, I looked at the Mazda 6 sport and saw the stats (it makes 180hp + 180ft lbs of trq) and then realized it was a 2.5 liter...

One can dream

I have been looking for a fun weekend car and just don't fit right in the NA/NB (I have a long torso and my eyes are level with the top of the windshield which drives me bonkers). I have been looking at used NC's and S2K's, but man I want to stretch the budget for an ND..