FA20 NA - how easy to wake up the engine and add “character”?

[Maxhouse97]

Good point - I am shopping for a car that can be ~70/30 street/track. Something that is relatively cheap to buy, even cheaper to run on the track compared to other cars. But I also like something that is fun to drive, lightweight, and has a great engine. And yes I prefer NA to FI, particularly if the car came NA from the factory.

Don’t get me wrong, I know the twins have a ton going for them ... they are great cars (and I love the fact that this thread has received so many responses in such a short time - sign of a great community). I was just wondering if some of the negative comments I’ve read about the engine could be alleviated by some bolt on mods.

[Maxhouse97]

And to add I’d be cross shopping the cars I mentioned, Miata, S2000, M3.

[therealstoly]

I sometimes sit here in disbelief at how tolerant this forum/community is. Try joining any other forum for any other platform just to ask a question that has been answered, debated, and otherwise discussed for nearly a decade and see how that pans out...

Address the air in and out of the engine, add a tune, and there you have it.

I picked a 2020 BRZ over several other options, including the ND, for a variety of reasons that I don't often see mentioned. I've had three Miatae and other Mazdas and couldn't bear to have another Mazda I had to argue with every single time I fire it up.

I would argue that the BRZ is the rawest driver car you can get in 2020. The Mazda consistently thought it could outdrive me between lane assist, which was worthless, adaptive cruise control, which was problematic, et al. If you want a car you drive, the BRZ is about as close as you can get to the 'good ole days' with a factory warranty. A now mandated rear view camera, which I'm a proponent of, ABS, airbags, and that's really about it. It doesn't have a heads up display, yell at me, and in the case of Mazda, vibrate and jerk the wheel every time it confuses itself as onramps turn into interstates with the sun at an angle.

It's a driver's car without a lot of the nonsense that needs just a little help with its lung capacity from the factory. And I would also tout the community that the BRZ has in comparison to any other forum I've been a part of.

[gen3v8]

I have played against these cars on the track. They have had headers, some kind of exhaust and have been tuned. With a good driver they were barely catchable. I was running a 200wkw wrx with B16 PSS/10 shocks, Brembos, DBA T3`s, track pads, 225 semi slicks and 2.5 years of getting it all together.

That`s why We bought one to replace our much loved and missed 13 WRX hatch. The BRZ is such a fun and capable car so far and I can`t wait to put it on the track and play racecar with some much more powerful cars. P.S My wife Tracks and wants a go also, Well it`s her Daily.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by WC-BRZ

Just out of curiosity, what "better car" is out there for the price of a well-sorted boosted BRZ?

To be more specific, let's say we take a brand new base BRZ for about USD$25-26k and give it a well-sorted FI setup (proper cooling upgrades, catch cans, clutch, etc) and some decent wheels/tires, coilovers, brakes and minor weight reduction for an additional $12k or so.

We have a total of about USD$35-37k put in with about 300-330whp in a 2500-2600lbs car that arguably handles just as well as a Porsche Cayman.

Genuinely curious as to what people mean when they say "don't put money in the 86 to boost it, just get a "better car"...not trying to be a wise ass, but really curious about what "better car" everyone has in mind within this price range?

Were you thinking of a used C6 Z06, used Caymans etc?

I know these are all notably heavier but I think there are compelling arguments to be had for the likes of the 370z and the Camaro or Mustang. The 4 cyl turbo pony cars are available for around the same price as a twin although you'll probably want to option them up if you are doing any track work with them while a twin only *needs* brake pads and fluid to be track ready although an aftermarket oil cooler and camber adjustments are highly recommended as well. Or you can pony up for the v8 engines and you are no longer talking about vehicles in the same ballpark performance wise.

[RToyo86]

A light weight flywheel would wake it up in the lower gears. I had a 7 pound flywheel on my integra and it made a noticeable difference. Taking off from a stop was slightly more tedious but doable.

I'd never go that light again for a street application but there's a happy medium.

As other said header+tune helps. Mainly be adding torque to the mid range where the car is weakest and a bit up top. Peak numbers vary between header and off shelf tune vs custom tuning.

Best bang for buck is a header like gruppe-s and a OFT tune. Beyond that you chase smaller gains for lots more money.

Oh and E85. That's probably the easiest and noticable power mod and you can flash a tune over a otherwise stock engine.

[DarkSunrise]

Another vote for an e85 tune, lightweight flywheel and minor weight reduction. I've got no problems keeping up with my friend's AP2 S2000 in the canyons or from a 1st-3rd pull.

In terms of smoothness, just blocking off the sound tube made the engine feel much smoother. Made me realize how much of the buzziness was from the piped-in intake sound.

For sound and character, I like the F22C engine better, but the FA20 has a noticeably wider powerband so it's kind of a toss up to me. I love driving the S2000 but wouldn't trade my FR-S for one.

[Tcoat]

It is a 2 litre NA boxer engine. You can do a few things to make it a bit more peppy but it will remain a 2 litre NA boxer engine. It will not magically change it's base characteristics by "waking it up".
People either seem to love them or hate them.
Those that expect something different after spending large sums of money to make it "better" are often disappointed because in the end it is still a 2 litre NA boxer engine.

[Lantanafrs2]

You can get 200whp pretty easily but character? Still feels bland imo. Subaru doesn't do naturally aspirated very well. Not their thing

[Spuds]

This engine has plenty of character. Crickets, torque dip, pulls to 7500rpm, sounds like it wants to self destruct are all interesting qualities of the FA20. Some people seem to wish it had less character...

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by WC-BRZ

Just out of curiosity, what "better car" is out there for the price of a well-sorted boosted BRZ?

To be more specific, let's say we take a brand new base BRZ for about USD$25-26k and give it a well-sorted FI setup (proper cooling upgrades, catch cans, clutch, etc) and some decent wheels/tires, coilovers, brakes and minor weight reduction for an additional $12k or so.

We have a total of about USD$35-37k put in with about 300-330whp in a 2500-2600lbs car that arguably handles just as well as a Porsche Cayman.

Genuinely curious as to what people mean when they say "don't put money in the 86 to boost it, just get a "better car"...not trying to be a wise ass, but really curious about what "better car" everyone has in mind within this price range?

Were you thinking of a used C6 Z06, used Caymans etc?

I guess the closest thing that comes to mind for me is a used Lotus Elise. At least in my area I usually find them around the $25-30k range. Then again, I'm of the mindset of modding, even a little can do good. I'm not going to leave a car stock unless it's a beater.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Maxhouse97

Yeah again I’m not looking for outright power (one comparison is a Miata after all). I’m looking for a fun to drive engine experience, something that revs quickly, sounds great, has linear power delivery straight through redline.

From a couple of responses it sounds like I/H/E mods plus engine mounts plus lightweight flywheel might get you close. But that’s a lot of mods, where as an S2000 or ND might be more emotive out of the box.

they're more emotive becuase they have more NVH. Put on a proper light clutch (not a light flywheel), and the revs will be as fast as any honda/mazda/whatever with a light setup.

source: Guy who's put a combined 180k miles on the two platforms.

[nikitopo]

What adds character to a NA engine? A flat torque curve? This I would say is more of a turbo thing. A rev up to 8000 rpm? Too difficult to be achieved in this engine. Much more power? Then I am afraid that you'll need to go FI and you lose the NA aspect. Maybe adding just sound? It depends on user priorities and the term 'character' is a different thing for different people.

For me adding character is all the small things that you can add up to make the car a bit better, but in this case I would say to not focus just on the engine. In fact, the engine might be an area that you should focus the least. Especially, if you want to stay legal with emissions and you have an environmental awareness. CSG Mike gave an example of other areas like a light clutch assembly.

[TommyW]

Mustang and Camaro......too big
S2000....too old
Miata....too cute
Cayman...too expensive
Elise.....too small and hard to get in, out of
WRX...it’s a sedan