Electric Supercharger - Market Speculation

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by Mars2

2000 to 4000 is not 50% increase it's 100% more increase. Go back to kindergarden math 50 % increase would 2000 plus 2000/2=3000

[tahdizzle]

Pricing should really not be argued. It can be argued in a way that makes the JR kit significantly cheaper.

If you argue in terms of $$$/HP. The JR kit is cheaper than a ESC comparing gains with a stock rating of 160 hp.

[Thorpedo]

Originally Posted by xuimod

Yeah yeah. Anybody who criticizes what you do is a troll right?

And here is the proof that you are a troll.

Stop feeding him, folks.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Pricing should really not be argued. It can be argued in a way that makes the JR kit significantly cheaper.

If you argue in terms of $$$/HP. The JR kit is cheaper than a ESC comparing gains with a stock rating of 160 hp.

This thread really isn't about comparing the two kits, parts of the discussion just went that way. To be fair, a person could continuously upgrade the JR kit until it reached a favorable HP output to the comparison. To also be fair, in discussing the "true" costs of the JR kit, it's considerably higher than $4000.

JR Supercharger base kit: $4000
EcuTek Tune (cable, license, tune): $700-$1000 (required)
Flex Fuel Kit + Flex Fuel Tune: $500-$700
That's actually about $5500 to get to theoretical Rotrex setup ATL_BRZ describes above (not $4000, you can't run the FI without a tune, and you can't run e85 in the way stated above without another tune and a flex fuel kit). However you can save some money if you buy the JRSC + Tune + Flex Fuel kit all at the same time and don't do this as an upgrade. That could drop the $5500 cost by $500 give or take.

Installation: Variable, but I wouldn't self install anything as complex as this kit without visiting a mechanic, tuner and dyno. So I'd put the installation number at: $500 - $1000 based on 5-7 hours of labor at a good shop. The ESC install is dead simple, the complexity is low, and the power is made in a way that won't grenade your engine if something goes wrong.

So if you do not self install the JR kit with e85 will run $6000 - $7000 vs. the Phantom kit + OFT for $2200 - $2300. Indeed, the numbers are easy to skew.

Of course the power isn't the same, but neither are the goals. However for the majority of drivers who rarely see a track (but possibly do AutoX and or drag) the ESC makes a lot of sense. A final note to this is that development of the ESC kit is bringing it closer to the above goals each day for A LOT less money.

[campy]

To answer the initial question of "why aren't manufacturers making ESC kits?", it's because nobody would buy them. If I'm already willing to spend $3000, why not spend an extra $2000 and get the extra benefits of a real supercharger? Companies will only sell parts that are in demand. I don't want a weak FI system that only activates at WOT. And the claim "+50whp with aftermarket headers" isn't a very good selling point. Rev Works tuned a 100% stock FRS to over 200whp, and people with headers alone already see upwards of 200whp. As a buyer in the FI marketplace, that leaves me wonder what benefit comes from the ESC itself.

I think the reason for the ESC's apparent success on this forum is because the owners of this car are strangely frugal. People shell out $25k-40k for a brand-spankin'-new car, then demand the cheapest parts for it.

[8ighty6]

I would argue that $1500-$2500 entry-level forced induction kits have more market potential than your serious $4000+ kits, especially for low-budget sports cars. The Phantom ESC has done an exceptional job exploiting this opportunity and bringing the demand to light.

Let's be real, while many people who buy sports cars such as the 86 twins may be car enthusiasts, the overwhelming majority of them never actually track their cars. While 300+ whp certainly sounds like it would be unbelievably fantastic, most street-goers cannot justify the $5000-$6000 price and instead settle with $1500-$2000 in bolt-ons that produce minimal gains. Remember, this is a budget car that is purchased by a lot of young people that are tight on money. That $2000-$4000 range is almost completely untapped.

The ESC satisfies this gap in the market, and I look forward to seeing how Phantom and other companies respond to this in the future.

[tahdizzle]

I agree. I wouldn't spend 3 grand for 230 whp.

[Blu-by-U]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

So, I was kind of thinking about this the other day. It's a rather simple idea so bear with me here

Given the success of the "Full Throttle Electric Supercharger". In case you missed it...

Why aren't major companies investing resources into the electric supercharger market?

Originally Posted by xuimod

Sorry you sound like a fanboy.

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

This is with practically no advertising (just word of mouth). That enthusiasm points towards a mainstream arc and not a niche product.

Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash

My suggestion: Don't feed the troll

Just so that everyone is in touch with the real world, Valeo is developing an ESC for Volvo and Audi is testing an ESC on the R5. Don't know the specific outcomes of either project, but the ESC is in the mainstream.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by jdv14476

Just so that everyone is in touch with the real world, Valeo is developing an ESC for Volvo and Audi is testing an ESC on the R5. Don't know the specific outcomes of either project, but the ESC is in the mainstream.

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...rger-explained

Not exactly what we're talking about here is it.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Not sure if this Road and Track magazine article as been linked before:

How electric superchargers went from fantasy to feasibility
It's finally time to plug in your snail.

[tahdizzle]

@jdv14476 and @Shiv@Openflash

You guys do realize you are talking about electric supercharges that feed real turbochargers right?

[Blu-by-U]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...rger-explained

Not exactly what we're talking about here is it.

Fairly relevant and it's more about what you want to do with your own car. If you want more power, then you're probably going to replace the internals and seriously build an engine. If you just want the ponies that everyone seems to think are missing, bolt-on mods can get you there. To chastise some development just because it doesn't fill your personal needs. End of line.

[Blu-by-U]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

@jdv14476 and @Shiv@Openflash

You guys do realize you are talking about electric supercharges that feed real turbochargers right?

That's what happens when Turbos can't do the job from the get go.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by campy

I think the reason for the ESC's apparent success on this forum is because the owners of this car are strangely frugal. People shell out $25k-40k for a brand-spankin'-new car, then demand the cheapest parts for it.

Some logic.

Ok so who determines what is the proper amount to spend for a part? You?

What is something new comes along that fulfills the individual buyers need with new technology that is much less expensive?

This point of yours falls apart under very little scrutiny. Example, why buy a cheap-o set of KW's when if you weren't so frugal Motons, JRZs or Penskes are the obvious choice for people who TRULY care about their cars. Or why buy an off the shelf titanium exhaust from a marginal company like Tomei, when people who REALLY care about their vehicle investment would have a custom titanium exhaust fabricated?

See how that works?

Look, inexpensive is only one of the many advantages to an electric supercharger, but no one can force you to be open minded and to fully educate yourself on the matter. After all, as is often repeated "A teacher appears only when the student is ready".