Why doesn't it come like this from the Factory? (Front Camber Bolts + Spring Swaping)

[Kostamojen]

So after my first Autox this last weekend, using semi-quality tires and not stock tires, I met a few other stock class folks in both BRZ's and FRS's. It was readily apparently who had the most seat time and who had the cars sorted properly. Upon reading up on basically everything and confirming with folks at the event, I decided to try a couple basic suspension changes:


Front Camber bolts - The BRZ, FRS, GT86 all come with strut holes DESIGNED for using the stock Subaru camber bolts, but don't actually come with adjustable bolts...

WHY????

This makes no sense to me!

Anyway, this was my second thing I did today to the car actually as I had to wait for a bolt to arrive. I've worked on Subaru's basically forever, and have installed suspensions dozens of times on my old Impreza, so working with these camber bolts is nothing new to me. So I installed them on my BRZ and set the negative camber as high as the OEM bolts go...

IMMEDIATE improvement in handling, even without an actual measured alignment (not too concerned about a quality alignment now, running crap tires and I almost always get the alignment right with these bolts). Much better turn in, I could feel the tires biting, and the steering feels more controlled. This isn't too surprising though, as pretty much every Subaru responds the same way to more negative front camber but with this car it just gets THAT MUCH better and isn't about combating understeer like with Imprezas and such.


The second thing I tried today...

FRS rear springs on the BRZ (Or for an FRS, BRZ front springs)

Again, WHY does the car not come like this from the factory???

The stiffer spring rates in front AND rear create a car that has both sharp turn in like the BRZ and some tail happiness like the FRS. It actually feels more predictable to me now, especially combined with the camber bolts. I can get the car to do what I want when I want.

I can't wait to try this in Autox, and I'm just as curious how these changes would effect these cars on the track. They are cheap and easy changes that could be implemented at the factory with zero cost in materials so its somewhat confounding to me...


Anyway, my next mod is a Strano front swaybar that is arriving a couple days, which from what everyone says really improves the car as well. Another thing that IMO should be done from the factory if it really has that great of an effect on the car.

/rant

[OICU812]

I agree front - camber is truly a BIG difference indeed.

[EAGLE5]

I wonder whether to use FR-S shocks or BRZ shocks, and front vs rear.

[KKaWing]

Car was designed on a strict budget. Having camber bolts mean it would require that extra minute to dial it in and complicates manufacturing. It is cheap enough, and easy enough as an aftermarket add-on. Enthusiasts would probably go and get a more aggressive alignment anyways. A few bucks per car x the annual total production could mean hiring another person on the assembly line.

[7thgear]

because not everyone is a b-boy-racer

they left the option for the tuners but for the 99% of the people who buy their car they've kept it as is.

the backseats have child-seat holsters for crying out loud.

[SubiePig]

As said before its cost, that and you don't see to many cars with aggressive alignments from the factory. The people that don't modify their cars would just complain about tire wear. The car was built as a platform for people but also is just fine to most as it is. That suspension combination may feel better but remember if you are worried about going faster feel and fast isn't always the same thing. Since the shock valving on the FRS and BRZ are different just swapping springs I don't know how well matched the BRZ rear shocks are for FRS rear springs or FRS front shocks for BRZ front springs depending on your car.

[wparsons]

If there were more adjustment points in the alignment, they would have to spend more time aligning parts on the assembly line. Adding 10-15 minutes per car would be a huge cost in the big picture.

[EAGLE5]

I have seen a couple posts by knowledgeable people to the effect that crash bolts, OEM and otherwise, are not as reliable. Being thinner, they break, and they also fall out of adjustment.

[Zach3794]

I have not read about a single occurrence of people having camber bolts slip, even through accidents! I have heard the concerns of many as well, but not one documented case.

[SubiePig]

They use those bolts in WRX's and have for years, I have never had one slip but I have always torqued them properly too.

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

I have seen a couple posts by knowledgeable people to the effect that crash bolts, OEM and otherwise, are not as reliable. Being thinner, they break, and they also fall out of adjustment.

Thats a load of bull. The Impreza/etc. Subaru camber bolts are as thick as the BRZ/FRS/GT86 non-adjustable bolts and made of the same material. PLUS people rally on the damn things on cars that weigh 500lbs more!!!



The Eibach/Whiteline style camber bolts I have heard of breaking, but thats a different story all together.

Originally Posted by SubiePig

As said before its cost, that and you don't see to many cars with aggressive alignments from the factory. The people that don't modify their cars would just complain about tire wear. The car was built as a platform for people but also is just fine to most as it is. That suspension combination may feel better but remember if you are worried about going faster feel and fast isn't always the same thing. Since the shock valving on the FRS and BRZ are different just swapping springs I don't know how well matched the BRZ rear shocks are for FRS rear springs or FRS front shocks for BRZ front springs depending on your car.

I spent several hours researching the shock valving on the FRS and BRZ shocks...

I could not find any evidence they are actually different other than the part numbers. All the measured "testing" of the shocks showed they are within the margin of error of each other, IE its not enough difference to matter if they are different. The spring rates are not that high either, so the ride hasn't even changed for the worse with the FRS rear springs, it feels basically the same minus the way it reacts in the corners. If I found out that the shocks were actually different, I would have bought the struts too.

As for the "cost" of the bolts and installing them... We all know that is just an excuse. EVERY Subaru has had these things before, its not like its difficult or expensive for them to install them. Its a parts bin part and they have everything they need to do the install, they just didn't.

[KKaWing]

Tein's dyno plots for the FR-S and BRZ

http://teinusa-blog.com/wp-content/u...FRS-Front1.pdf
http://teinusa-blog.com/wp-content/u...-FRS-Rear1.pdf

[Kostamojen]

Small update:

I took the car on a drive on my favorite stretch of road around here, about a 3 hour drive, 150 miles or so.

The car is MUCH more predictable now. When it breaks loose, I can catch it, and when I throw it into a corner it just tucks in and turns. The spring rates now are very well matched IMO and the camber up front is very noticeable.

I was going at least 10-15mph faster with this car on the same corners than I was in my (highly modified) Impreza that weight roughly the same weight and had better tires too. I was astounded how good this car is once its sorted properly and has a half-decent set of tires (These aren't even "great" tires, just OK tires... Federal s595's that I got for cheap in new condition. Its hard to imagine how fast this car will be with GREAT tires)

[Kostamojen]

Originally Posted by KKaWing

Tein's dyno plots for the FR-S and BRZ

http://teinusa-blog.com/wp-content/u...FRS-Front1.pdf
http://teinusa-blog.com/wp-content/u...-FRS-Rear1.pdf

Were those shocks new off the shelf, or used?