Toyota EV. The savior of stick shift and rear wheel drive?

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by saltywetman

Adding moving parts for the sake of adding moving parts when there is no huge benefit is just reducing reliability by introduce just another wear item to eventually break. As much as I enjoy traditional manual transmissions, if it's something redundant for electric motors. I'd rather them keep things simple.

It feels like everyone will have plenty opportunity for something simple. Having something interesting would be...interesting.

[soundman98]

There is technically 'no benefit' to my 18v drill having 2 speeds. But I use the 2 different speeds all the time for the torque advantage.

This patent will come into play, but more likely in the truck/towing market

[Yoshoobaroo]

Have you guys looked at the diagram? There is no gearbox. It’s still just a direct drive electric motor and the pedals and shifter are connected to the motor controller, which then simulates everything.



I want a low rpm (~10k) electric motor with a gearbox. Not a racing sim in an electric car.

[soundman98]

i'm too busy complaining to be bothered to click a link.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by EAGLE5

A model S can go from 0 to 200mph, theoretically, and all on one speed.

Yes, that's because it has 1000hp, and effortlessly spins the wheels like a toy car. The different motors on each axle are like 2 different "gearings" efficiency-wise which is why they cruise at high efficiency.

Motor efficiency is bad at low speed and high speed low load (eddy current losses in the stator, friction). 2 speeds lets you accelerate with higher efficiency and cruise with higher efficiency.

If you were to build a more basic EV with 2 wheel drive and a more reasonable amount of power, 2 speeds would make sense. The nonsense about a gearbox being less efficient is nonsense, because Teslas have a 10:1 reduction gear before the differential. You can have two ratios no problem with on demand oiling. With a 4WD high power monster like the P100D, single speed makes sense for most situations especially with an induction motor or perhaps in the future a pure switched reluctance motor.

I think a really fun EV sports car would be a rear weight biased, RWD, 2 speed "manual shift" with mechanical linkage, straight cut gears for some noise and transmission weight reduction, Torsen diff, maybe around 250hp/ton.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Yes, that's because it has 1000hp, and effortlessly spins the wheels like a toy car. The different motors on each axle are like 2 different "gearings" efficiency-wise which is why they cruise at high efficiency.

Motor efficiency is bad at low speed and high speed low load (eddy current losses in the stator, friction). 2 speeds lets you accelerate with higher efficiency and cruise with higher efficiency.

If you were to build a more basic EV with 2 wheel drive and a more reasonable amount of power, 2 speeds would make sense. The nonsense about a gearbox being less efficient is nonsense, because Teslas have a 10:1 reduction gear before the differential. You can have two ratios no problem with on demand oiling. With a 4WD high power monster like the P100D, single speed makes sense for most situations especially with an induction motor or perhaps in the future a pure switched reluctance motor.

I think a really fun EV sports car would be a rear weight biased, RWD, 2 speed "manual shift" with mechanical linkage, straight cut gears for some noise and transmission weight reduction, Torsen diff, maybe around 250hp/ton.

You mean like a RWD Model 3 or Model S or Model Y or Model X or i4 or FWD cars from Kia, VW, Hyundai, and others?

The base Model 3, RWD, has 272 miles of range, does 0-60 in 5.8 seconds, and hits 140 mph. Those stats look a lot like another RWD vehicle I know of.
It also has a higher efficiency rating than the LR (AWD) and Performance (also AWD) models.

If a 2 speed was the way to go, Tesla would be doing it. Also, not sure if you've driven a Tesla with regen turned off, but it's kind of stunning how little drag my Model Y has. There is less friction than anything I have ever been in. It's bizarre. The fact that the power goes through a fixed gear reduction is not the same as it going through a shiftable transmission.

I'm sure some minor gains can be found with a transmission, but there are far more gains to be found in other areas: batteries, controllers, software, motor tweaks, aero, tires, bearings, and even optimized fixed gearing. Why? Because modern electric motors have gigantic efficiency ranges that cover 99% of driving.

[Lelandjt]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

2 speed gearboxes make perfect sense for EVs. 3 speeds makes sense if the motor is very small, but on a pure EV they won't be. A manual shift lever would IMO be fun but a clutch pedal is not necessary given the electric motor rotor has very low moment of inertia compared to a gasoline engine.

The cool thing about a M/T EV is that you would be rewarded with better regen efficiency if you downshift while braking

There are electric trials bikes that have a clutch for clutch dumps. I guess the difference between vehicle weight and motor inertia might make it more relevant there.

[Lelandjt]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I want a low rpm (~10k) electric motor with a gearbox. Not a racing sim in an electric car.

There are shops that can do that. After picking up my GR86 in May I'm bringing it to one in Colorado to discuss a conversion.

[Tcoat]

All this is no different than cars with CVTs that have fake shift points built in and give you impression that they are changing gears at "normal" shift points. Some even give you paddle shifters so you can pretend you have different gears.

[Sasquachulator]

It'll be all simulated, similar to EPS.

They sucked at it from the beginning but eventually manufacturers were simulate a real hydraulic steering rack with all the feel and feedback.

I did read a pretty neat idea on reddit about EV manual, they could theoretically be programmed to mimic specific cars manual action and you could potentially be able to change the car's manual transmission profile to fit that car.

Default to a sloppy Corolla manual shift action. Want to know what it feels like to drive a supra? switch to a supra profile. Want to try driving a porsche? Porsrche profile, etc.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

All this is no different than cars with CVTs that have fake shift points built in and give you impression that they are changing gears at "normal" shift points. Some even give you paddle shifters so you can pretend you have different gears.

Yes - as much as a fan of MT as I am, I can't see ever wanting anything like this.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Yes - as much as a fan of MT as I am, I can't see ever wanting anything like this.

In the end i imagine its just gonna feel like if you are playing a racing video game and you have a racing setup with the pedals, shifter, and racing chair.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

In the end i imagine its just gonna feel like if you are playing a racing video game and you have a racing setup with the pedals, shifter, and racing chair.

But if you crash you don't respawn in the middle of the road!

[Dadhawk]

Tesla did try a two-speed transmission with the original Roadster. It was attributed with large part of their original delays.

Ultimately, if there is a legitimate reason for a transmission (such as increased top-end speed) I suppose it makes sense. I see no real reason for it in a street EV though. Extra complexity without any real benefit.