GR86 upgrade stock brakes or wait for Performance Pack?

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by churchx

If one wants to retrofit, all PP brake parts alone will cost you 2.5K.

Where did you see them that cheap? I’ve seen them for 4K from fastWRX, that’s it.

[Dylans47]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

There's a GR86 forum?

I've had the car on order from day 1, and I think CSG will also be picking up a few.

Yea it's called https://www.*********/forums/2022-to...ssion-forum.8/. Check it out!

Edit: Wow is ft86club banning the mention of the gr86 forum? Thats insane. Well its gr86 dot org.

[soundman98]

lol, it's club3g.com vs. eclipseforums.org all over again!

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Dylans47

I'm very likely going to be buying a GR86 on launch, but the only thing making it very likely and not definitive is the stock brakes. I track about 5 times or so a year and like to canyon drive, so I would like a nice set of brakes. Unfortunately just some pads wont cut it with the stock 2 piston front and 1 piston rear setup.

Joining track events 5 times per year won't justify a new set of brakes. Unless, you are living close to the mountains and you are fast. Having said that if I had to change them, then I would go for the STI drilled discs. The part numbers are exactly the same for the old and new cars. I am sure TRD has a similar option.

[MrSkubi]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

If you want a rear BBK anyways, you can use any Brembo GT rear kit, although the sensible option would be the smallest Brembo GT rear.

Are 2 pot Brembo GT rears even using different size pistons compared to 08-14 STI or EVO X calipers (40mm pistons) ?
I'm sure there are benefits of getting a rear GT kit (quality rotors, radial mount, new parts etc) but isn't it possible to run the front GT 4 pot with STI/PP or EVO X swap on the rear axle since the pistons/discs sizes are the same ?

[churchx]

If you care about car handling and braking efficiency, you should care about not shifting brake bias too much to make car unstable under heavy braking or have it's braking distance longer with those .. hmm, "brake upgrades". In most cases ability to bolt on mounting wise calipers from other car doesn't mean it has same brake torque OE one it replaces, obviously shifting brake bias. IIRC about the only safe retrofit bias wise was from WRX of some gen, and it was about front brakes, not rears. If one intends to track car, imho brakes certainly are not something to compromise to save some money. Advanced motorsport crowd may do it in educated fashion by properly testing by themselves on brake test rig or skidpad, in some cases also using staggered pad compounds, brake biasing valves and so on, or even willingly going for different bias (due eg. different aero downforce mods that change overall grip bias) but for average Joe wishing "5 trackdays a year" blind retrofit "just because it can be mounted and is cheaper" imho is path they shouldn't take.

[Racecomp Engineering]

There were a lot of people tracking their cars from 2013 to 2016, before the PP was a thing.

Many on OEM calipers, and also many on quality BBKs. The good kits consider brake bias and are excellent with the factory rear calipers as mentioned.

We don't know when or what to expect from the PP.

- Andrew

[Yoshoobaroo]

Does bias even matter with EBD?
Isn’t EBD the main reason the car doesn’t rotate under trail braking too?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by MrSkubi

Are 2 pot Brembo GT rears even using different size pistons compared to 08-14 STI or EVO X calipers (40mm pistons) ?
I'm sure there are benefits of getting a rear GT kit (quality rotors, radial mount, new parts etc) but isn't it possible to run the front GT 4 pot with STI/PP or EVO X swap on the rear axle since the pistons/discs sizes are the same ?

Yes.

Just a FYI Evo X and 04-07 and 08-14 rear brembo 2 pots are all different.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Does bias even matter with EBD?
Isn’t EBD the main reason the car doesn’t rotate under trail braking too?

Sure does. Bias still affects performance and life.

EBD is reactive, not proactive. You're still losing out every time you rely on EBD.

[churchx]

Also, doesn't pedal-dance, many track with, disable EBD in addition to e-diff, leaving only basic ABS?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Dylans47

Edit: Looking more closely, the Brembo GT's design is definitely superior to the PP, owning to the bolt direction alone. I forgot if that's considered parallel or perpendicular bolt design.

IIRC the aftermarket Brembo GT have radial bolts *in addition to the axial bolts*. I.e., *not* "superior", as the radial bolts are an additional bolted interface, you still have the "inferior" axially bolted joint.

In practice, this is not a big deal but should be pointed out...

Q: Sorry if I missed this, but what pads are you planning to run? I would be very surprised if you couldn't find pads that'll work with the standard brake setup.
[edit/addendum]Every driver uses brakes differently! Some drivers may find that they *do* need upgraded brakes for hard track usage...

[Dylans47]

Originally Posted by ZDan

IIRC the aftermarket Brembo GT have radial bolts *in addition to the axial bolts*. I.e., *not* "superior", as the radial bolts are an additional bolted interface, you still have the "inferior" axially bolted joint.

In practice, this is not a big deal but should be pointed out...

Q: Sorry if I missed this, but what pads are you planning to run? I would be very surprised if you couldn't find pads that'll work with the standard brake setup.

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll have to look more into radial bolts and axial bolts. I know that with the Brembo GT kit, it looks like the bolt heads are facing towards the face of the caliper. Would be called axial bolts or radial bolts?

To answer your question, with my previous track setup I thought I would be good to go to run GLOC R10 pads all around, which are definitely a true track pad, not dual duty. But I still dealt with brake fade. So this time around, the GR86 being a heavier car with smaller rotors and pad surface area, I should go with GLOC R16 or something. Still need to do research there. Or I could consider the CSG C2 that Mike suggested, if their price is competitive and reviews are up to par.

Note: If you aren't familiar, GLOC is an offshoot from CarboTech. The owners, or something, of CarboTech split up, leading to GLOC. I've read a lot about GLOC actually improving CarboTech's formula, so I've been going with them.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Dylans47

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll have to look more into radial bolts and axial bolts. I know that with the Brembo GT kit, it looks like the bolt heads are facing towards the face of the caliper. Would be called axial bolts or radial bolts?

"Axial" bolts are parallel with the wheel axis. "Radial" bolts are more aligned with rotor radial direction (imagine a line originating at the axle and pointing outward to the tire tread).

Any aftermarket bolt-up kit is going to have an axially-bolted interface with the factory knuckle/upright . Only way to get a "radial" bolted joint there would be to have a custom aftermarket knuckle/upright.

To answer your question, with my previous track setup I thought I would be good to go to run GLOC R10 pads all around, which are definitely a true track pad, not dual duty. But I still dealt with brake fade. So this time around, the GR86 being a heavier car with smaller rotors and pad surface area, I should go with GLOC R16 or something. Still need to do research there. Or I could consider the CSG C2 that Mike suggested, if their price is competitive and reviews are up to par.

GLOC R10 equivalent to Carbotech xP10, right? IMO a pretty OK street/track pad (at least I ran mine on the street a fair amount).

CSG C2 were a big upgrade in terms of feel (great bite but not overly hyper-grabby, important for me because not running ABS) and temperature-consistency and longevity for me, though I never had fade issues with XP10 (on 550hp FD with StopTech ST40 brakes and 328mm front rotors).
I also end up running the C2s on the street a fair amount and I find them perfectly streetable save for some noise...

Worth a try IMO! If temp/fade is a primary concern of course check wit them for recommendation.


BTW I shouldn't suggest that what works for me and what I like will necessarily work for you or be what you like. IMO brakes are very *very* driver-dependent. It's weird but different drivers even turning same lap times in same car can have *very* different wants/needs for brakes in terms of feel and ability to take heat. So ultimately even though I don't think *I* would require Brembos (though I definitely like having them!), that doesn't mean that you might not! So apologies for previous post giving that impression.