Vacci-Nation [CLOSED DUE TO DISRESPECTFUL, INSULTING, POLITICAL POSTS

[Atmo]

We're on the same page. I was thrown off when you quoted part of my post having to do with political persuasion.

Momentum is working against uniting us though. Most current media, entertainment, educational and political discussions use the currency of tribalism to divide us.

We have a long way to go to restore reason, debate and consideration into daily discourse. The push is toward dividing us and unfortunately it's working at the moment.

[wbradley]

Dadhawk, you have a good point that the issue of race may not be relevant to reaching herd immunity asap. It just sucks that it represents racial disparity on a grand scale.

Interesting how Japanese citizens are now outspoken, to the extent that they sway big business such as Toyota. I doubt they would have proceeded if it was Canada hosting and there was another surge. I guess there is just so much put into it they can't stand to give up. Everyone involved in the Olympics including all athletes trainers coaches and support should be double vaxxed. There have been 85 or more infections reported within the Olympics bubble so clearly there are cracks in their bubble and frankly I can't blame the Japanese people for being pissed but there is no point shutting the barn door when the horse has already escaped.

[JD001]

Originally Posted by Atmo

I think they should return to the spirit of the original Olympics and compete naked.

And that too...

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Would you please elaborate on that? I have no idea what the issue is.

I take issue with the whole premise of the study. I see no benefit in making any of this about race. Economic, geographic, cultural differences, maybe.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

In the end, the "fix" for this has nothing to do with race and everything to do with "everyone". To my mind, as long as we continue to concern ourselves with a breakdown by race for anything, we will not be able to get past racism. If we want to be one people we need to act as one people in a time of crisis.

Yeah, this, just this. And I argue that it's axiomatic.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

My thoughts, the chart showing what percentage of a particular racial community has been vaccinated doesn't mean much in itself, you have to know how many individuals it represents.

Moving the white community to get 10% of its remaining unvaccinated vaccinated moves us much closer to herd immunity than does 10% of the remaining Black (or any other ethnicity).

Putting it another way, if 100% of the all communities other than white, non Hispanic were vaccinated that would still leave us at about 30% of the population not being vaccinated, assuming the White community did not vaccinate one other person.

In the end, the "fix" for this has nothing to do with race and everything to do with "everyone". To my mind, as long as we continue to concern ourselves with a breakdown by race for anything, we will not be able to get past racism. If we want to be one people we need to act as one people in a time of crisis.

The problem is the chart depicts a multivariate problem using a bi-variate statistic. It lacks any context.

As some have pointed out, it doesn't control for social economic status (SES). It doesn't control for partisan self identification, nor attitudes toward government health programs. Lots of folks in the black community know all about the Tuskegee experiments and don't trust anybody. It doesn't control for education or for region. I live in one of the most heavily vaccinated parts of the country and 90% of folks are still wearing masks. It's also 85+% Hispanic.

The graph offers nothing really useful. I wouldn't call it racist, just hopelessly simple minded.

[Capt Spaulding]

It's the ideological differences that are more striking to me. Note the widening gap over time.



Again, it is an aggregate analysis so it doesn't control for SES or Education (both of which are related to voting choice) but I'd bet the result would hold regardless._

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

The graph offers nothing really useful. I wouldn't call it racist, just hopelessly simple minded.

Here's the rub. We also understand that intelligent people paid, and took pay for participating in a deliberate distortion. It's racist.


edit: My apologies. I'll retract the absolute and instead say I cannot believe that racism wasn't a foregone conclusion to all the intelligent people who willingly participated.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Here's the rub. We also understand that intelligent people paid, and took pay for participating in a deliberate distortion. It's racist.

It might be. Until people prove me wrong (and far too many have) I try to adhere to the axiom that, "One should try to avoid attributing to malice what can be as easily explained by incompetence."

Somebody at KFF may thought the chart told an interesting story. If so, I think they fucked up. They may have been thinking about implicit contextual factors, I don't have any way of knowing. The chart was attached to a story. (as was the one I posted - https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the...es-is-growing/). I/we didn't read the story so I can't tell what point they were trying to illustrate. What I do know is, unlike a number of other information sources, KFF has never struck me as a racist bunch.

If we could get a link to the article, we could make a more informed judgement.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

It might be. Until people prove me wrong (and far too many have) I try to adhere to the axiom that, "One should try to avoid attributing to malice what can be as easily explained by incompetence."

I get that. Admittedly, I have some pretty strong feelings. It's just so... damn... clumsy.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I get that. Admittedly, I have some pretty strong feelings. It's just so... damn... clumsy.

I understand. At best, it is extremely clumsy. But it would be very helpful to know what story the author was trying to tell. I can't scroll back far enough on this screen to see who the OP was. Perhaps, they'll post a link. Or, ... I could get off my dead ass and look for it. Maybe. Possibly. Might.

Fuck it Dude. Let's bowl.

[Capt Spaulding]

OK. Atmo posted the original graph and was good enough to link to the article. All I had to do is what I rank on others about and read it. I gave it a quick read and came to the conclusion that the author was treating ethnic disparities a a "dependent variable." That is, they saw it as a problem the needed 1) explaining and 2) solving. The following quote came from their "discussion" section.

Together, these data show that, despite recent trends suggesting improving equity in COVID-19 vaccination patterns and a recent narrowing in the gap between vaccination rates for White and Hispanic people, disparities are persisting. Less than half of Black and Hispanic people have received at least one COVID-19 vaccine dose in nearly all states reporting data, including a number of states where less than a third have received a vaccine. These lower vaccination rates among Black and Hispanic people leave them at increased risk for coronavirus, particularly as the Delta variant spreads, potentially leading to widening disparities going forward and limiting the nation’s recovery.

The graph may have racist implications, but I don't think the author intended it as a normative evaluation of the groups included. It was more of a case of "these people are being left behind and we have to fix that" tone. (my interpretation in quotes)

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

If we could get a link to the article, we could make a more informed judgement.

There's a link to the original KFF article in my first post about them. Embedded at the bottom of that article is another link to more of their data and charts. I didn't read all that much of it, there's more than I have time for, but it appears that in most cases state health departments collected the raw data they analyzed.

They sliced and diced the data into dozens of subcategories that I found more interesting than their headline anyway.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...tor-dashboard/

There's also interactive metric maps showing data by state.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...#raceethnicity

I give KFF credit despite the flaws you point out in their article. I didn't detect any obvious bias or agenda and thought they were as fair as possible given the limits of their data mostly supplied by the individual states, but I'm not a statistician.

Yes, they could've been more specific if they had more data, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, there's other information of interest and value there.

If there's more relevant, reliable data about the subjects they cover, links would be appreciated.

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

The graph may have racist implications, but I don't think the author intended it as a normative evaluation of the groups included. It was more of a case of "these people are being left behind and we have to fix that" tone. (my interpretation in quotes)

I got the same impression.