03-24-2019, 10:18 AM | #71 |
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There are two main requests here, after more power of course, eliminate torque dip and a 8000 rpm higher-rev engine. Although people are annoyed by the torque dip so much, they are still not willing to work around that torque dip just by down shifting. Then, higher-rev engine another common request here? Maybe the requests are coming from different groups.
If there will be a next generation twin, I think FA20DIT would be the most technically practical and economically feasible engine upgrade. They could just eliminate D4S, hi-rev, hi-compression and go with plain FA20DIT straight from Subaru. |
03-24-2019, 10:26 AM | #72 | |
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03-24-2019, 10:55 AM | #73 | |
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More confirmation from Toyota on next gen 86
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I think it's very plausible financially and potentially lightweight. I remember Tada told Road and Track in late 2012 they can cut up to 100kg out of the chassis without exotic materials. That leaves 220lbs extra for a mild hybrid system. Honda made the CR-Z on the Fit platform. The 2nd gen fit at it's lightest weighs 2496lbs, the CRZ 2657. 161lbs difference. That buys you 14hp and 58lb-ft of Torque. 20hp and 70lb-ft for the more powerful battery introduced in 2012 (I used 2012 curb weights). Keep in mind this is with 10 year old battery tech. The current fit hybrid adds even less weight. And the CRZ sold for 23k in today's money. All in all with batteries getting more powerful and cheaper to produce I think it's very plausible to get an FA20 + flywheel mounted motor powered 86 that weighs more or less the same (perhaps even a bit less) as the current car, but with more weight over the rear end, and crucially for a similar price as the current car. And it meshes well with Subarus E-boxer plans. Last edited by Yoshoobaroo; 03-24-2019 at 11:09 AM. |
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03-24-2019, 11:13 AM | #74 | |
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03-24-2019, 02:09 PM | #75 | |
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I'm beginning to wonder if we will see a 3rd refresh of the existing cars before the next gen cars come out because all signs point to them not being close to ready to reveal the next gen car yet and I don't think they would want more than a year gap of no release for these cars because then they run the risk of ending the venture all-together because once something stops, it's very hard to get going again. |
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03-24-2019, 02:36 PM | #76 | |
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I'd be all for a second refresh that introduces mild hybridization to pass emissions and offsets some of the weight by going plastic fenders/trunk. If they do another refresh as opposed to a full redesign, that saves NRE costs that can be spent on drivetrain upgrades. Also I am willing to bet beer money on that they can remove 50kg from the existing car without touching panel materials. They did not fully optimize the structure and body, there are always shortcuts made on the design/engineering side, 99% of the time because of schedule pressure. Those shortcuts usually involve throwing weight at a structure to avoid doing more analysis of problem areas. |
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03-24-2019, 03:03 PM | #77 | |
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This is the interior of a car where he has shed 400 pounds. You really think they can shed 200 while meeting the crash requirements and basic customer expectations? All the plastic fenders in the world are not going to shed that much. Actually as soon as the batteries for a hybrid get into the mix they are going to have to beef of the crash standards not reduce them.
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03-24-2019, 03:26 PM | #78 | |
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More confirmation from Toyota on next gen 86
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Where is the sarcasm tag here? I've never been at a company or project where 2 years of work didn't have to get done in 18 months. I need to switch to automotive if that's not the case there! Granted, my work is in aerospace, but we regularly leave 10-15% extra weight on the table because schedule pressure or scope change doesn't allow for enough testing or analysis. Throwing material at it is easy and fast, but it costs a lot of weight. I'm sure there are low stress areas in the body and chassis that were thickened up because there was a stress concentration in a corner or near a boundary condition and they didn't have 2 weeks to finesse the geometry and re-analyze 6-7 iterations. Instead they thickened the panel half a mm and moved on. Last edited by Yoshoobaroo; 03-24-2019 at 03:43 PM. |
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03-24-2019, 03:30 PM | #79 |
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cheap
light strong Pick two.
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03-24-2019, 03:36 PM | #80 | |
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03-24-2019, 03:43 PM | #81 | ||
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03-24-2019, 04:07 PM | #82 | |
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More confirmation from Toyota on next gen 86
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But they changed the engine wiring harness after the first year. And the valve stem length. And the window switches (smaller indexing). And the tail light gaskets. And the radio. And the kneepads. And that's just the stuff I can remember off the top of my head. Don't forget the TSBs like the ECU calibration to not fry the DI seals. They absolutely leave stuff on the table because it needs to be done Monday before OOB. That's why revisions are a thing in engineering. If it meets requirements it releases on the deadline. I do agree that it's likely that a second gen will gain weight, but it might not. Guess I'm still optimistic about the possibilities. With this being an emotional car I expect the team to try harder that on let's say, the next Camry. But they again at enthusiasts we tend to skew things in favor of what we want to see. |
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03-24-2019, 04:07 PM | #83 |
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I know what you mean but especially in the context of this argument, feel it's important to point out that "close enough" is literally what engineering is.
close enough = requirements met
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03-24-2019, 04:11 PM | #84 | |
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Exactly. And weight requirements are the first ones to loosen up when schedule pressure rises. |
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