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Old 05-24-2020, 07:02 PM   #15
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Disclaimer: I've been hired through OTA to time for Northern Speed events and did in fact work yesterday's race which ran incident free. Dov Arnoff from NV Auto who is also the track manager for TMP made sure of it. NV Auto is also a sponsor for Northern Speed.

Just to be clear, the guys who were the idiots at TMP on May 20th were NOT part of the Northern Star management team nor do they represent Northern Star.

They were simply some of the people who signed up for them. So I think it's unfair to say to avoid Northern Star because of these idiots who made track days look so horrible for the rest of us. This could be said for anyone part of CSCS or OTA doing dumb shit and then saying CSCS or OTA is bad. Just trying to be fair.
this is somewhat of the harley davidson problem though.

sure, these bad apples aren't part of management, or representatives for the track in any way. i think it's pretty clear by the comments so far that no one is trying to say that. but they exist there, and as the few comments are starting sway, many people are making the distinction to not visit that track specifically because of the culture that has taken up residence there. condoned, or not.

in the same way that HD is now significantly struggling because they marketed to a specific type of person that is now dying off, i can see the writing on the wall that allowing such behavior to continue with minimal repercussions by management makes the ownership technicalities all but insignificant. the track owners themselves might as well be doing all these damaging things. if a track starts getting reviews and word-of-mouth as the place that anything goes with minimal repercussions, the wrong types of people start showing up more and more.

whether or not management condones it on any official level, it will start to affect their bottom line as people mature and move away from that type of environment(no one likes constantly putting themselves or their equipment in a position to get their stuff screwed up by others on a consistent basis), not to mention, as track liabilities rise--all most insurance companies really need to raise rates is a whiff of something bad.

at the very least, they should be ejected from the track with no refund.
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Old 05-25-2020, 12:10 AM   #16
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this is somewhat of the harley davidson problem though.

sure, these bad apples aren't part of management, or representatives for the track in any way. i think it's pretty clear by the comments so far that no one is trying to say that. but they exist there, and as the few comments are starting sway, many people are making the distinction to not visit that track specifically because of the culture that has taken up residence there. condoned, or not.

in the same way that HD is now significantly struggling because they marketed to a specific type of person that is now dying off, i can see the writing on the wall that allowing such behavior to continue with minimal repercussions by management makes the ownership technicalities all but insignificant. the track owners themselves might as well be doing all these damaging things. if a track starts getting reviews and word-of-mouth as the place that anything goes with minimal repercussions, the wrong types of people start showing up more and more.

whether or not management condones it on any official level, it will start to affect their bottom line as people mature and move away from that type of environment(no one likes constantly putting themselves or their equipment in a position to get their stuff screwed up by others on a consistent basis), not to mention, as track liabilities rise--all most insurance companies really need to raise rates is a whiff of something bad.

at the very least, they should be ejected from the track with no refund.
I can confirm they were ejected - no refund.

And the next day and the next and from here on in, TMP is doing things quite differently.
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Old 05-25-2020, 12:32 AM   #17
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good to hear.
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:44 AM   #18
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I was considering doing some track days this year. These events have firmly convinced me that I want nothing to do with that scene and will just stick to autox. At least if an ego flares up there, cars are parked.
Don't let this group of tools dissuade you. At general open lapping you will likely see a couple of people running cars bought with "daddy's money" but the worst I've seen them do is forget to give someone a point by, and be rather slow on track for the cars they have. They're not typically dangerous.

If you go to a day run by another organization then it only gets better from there. I've heard the BMW trillium club is good and I know OTA is good (they have morning lapping that's not included in the competition and they usually have 2 schools a year).

Give track a shot; it's a ton of fun and has some great people
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:39 PM   #19
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It was an openlap hosted by TMP directly, it wasn't a private event hosted by any organizers. Northern Speed rented TMP for May 23rd for their Time-attack event that's all, they were in no way affiliated with the actions of those that caused chaos on May 20th. Northern Speed immediately published their warning/message for their time attack participants after the sh*tshow surfaced on the internet; demanding them not to act like those morons and harsh penalties were said to be given for inappropriate takeovers and dangerous actions and such. In fact, a lot of the drivers that do participate in trackdays hosted by Northern Speed are courteous, skilled, and have great sportsmanship. Despite a few of the participants reportedly acting poorly elsewhere, Northern Speed would in no way tolerate that during their time attack sessions. So I would say it is still safe to participate and it's kind of an overkill to look at Northern Speed as if its shady.

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Old 05-25-2020, 10:08 PM   #20
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I can attest to the fact that these TMP events attract some immature babies.

In fact, last event I was at, a 20-something taunted me to "go home".

I think these fucktards use the F N' F franchise to learn their humanity.


I feel safer just driving on the streets.
I think you’re confusing it in your head. If you forgot, you were driving unsafely without any regard for anyone else on track. Not to mention, you’re a bad driver lol. And I asked you to let faster cars ahead instead of trying to block and impede traffic - not to go home. You’re no different than those Chinese kids crashing at TMP that day

Edit: In case you have bad memory (which you might, since it was actually DDT, not TMP) - https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...90#post3090590

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Old 05-25-2020, 10:27 PM   #21
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Also for OP, as many others have said. The incidents you have posted about were during a TMP open lapping day hosted by TMP themselves. If anything you should blame them for the organization.

Northern Speed has nothing to do with the events that transpired that day. The only thing common might be that they are Chinese lol
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:56 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by laksman91 View Post
I think you’re confusing it in your head. If you forgot, you were driving unsafely without any regard for anyone else on track. Not to mention, you’re a bad driver lol. And I asked you to let faster cars ahead instead of trying to block and impede traffic - not to go home. You’re no different than those Chinese kids crashing at TMP that day

Edit: In case you have bad memory (which you might, since it was actually DDT, not TMP) - https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...90#post3090590
Burn. File that under, "Posts that didn't age well." Also, that video was PAINFUL! I hope he got black flagged.
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:00 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by laksman91 View Post
I think you’re confusing it in your head. If you forgot, you were driving unsafely without any regard for anyone else on track. Not to mention, you’re a bad driver lol. And I asked you to let faster cars ahead instead of trying to block and impede traffic - not to go home. You’re no different than those Chinese kids crashing at TMP that day

Edit: In case you have bad memory (which you might, since it was actually DDT, not TMP) - https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...90#post3090590
Bit overboard, but I guess you're keeping it real. Perhaps there was a miscommunication between the two of you that day. Anyway.


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Also for OP, as many others have said. The incidents you have posted about were during a TMP open lapping day hosted by TMP themselves. If anything you should blame them for the organization.

Northern Speed has nothing to do with the events that transpired that day. The only thing common might be that they are Chinese lol
Honestly, for the readers please correct me if I am wrong. Clearly I would like for there to be no organizations that would allow any of this kind of behaviour to exist. As I wasn't in attendance, my word is only so good as what I can speculate, so if it isn't as I say, which it's been said a few times now, then it is what it is.

With that said though, there is definitely a management problem on some end. All of this sounds a lot like a damn derby. And I don't think there is really a full story anywhere beside he said she said.

The main take away maybe should be user discretion (buyer beware), and/or just be smart about what events you attend.. Ex. First day out of home lockdown or a really high traffic day, etc...

Don't be an early adopter when restaurants open!
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Old 05-26-2020, 08:19 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by laksman91 View Post
I think you’re confusing it in your head. If you forgot, you were driving unsafely without any regard for anyone else on track. Not to mention, you’re a bad driver lol. And I asked you to let faster cars ahead instead of trying to block and impede traffic - not to go home. You’re no different than those Chinese kids crashing at TMP that day

Edit: In case you have bad memory (which you might, since it was actually DDT, not TMP) - https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...90#post3090590
Not to worry, I have moved on to safer and friendlier activities. You and your friends can have the track all to yourselves. I did have an enjoyable time the two previous times I was at the same venue (I still call it Mosport). That third time it was apparent, based on people like you calling me out, that I really shouldn't be there, you are right. I for one can't afford to get into a smash up.

I'd like to take the Bondurant course next time I'm in Scottsdale but at $1500 USD I'm not sure it's an immediate priority, with a family and all. And

You seem like a real likeable guy and I do appreciate your approach. Not to worry I was convinced not to return to those events. Good luck this season!

BTW Who said I was referring to you? Were you the only person who I spoke with?
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Old 05-26-2020, 08:54 AM   #25
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@wbradley
Hi, I'm just wondering which safer and friendlier track day organizers, or motorsports activities you have moved on to?



I haven't been involved for a number of years, and it seems there are always new organizers, or even old ones that I am not familiar with anymore. I am trying to find other safer organizers to mitigate risks.


Thanks


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Old 05-26-2020, 09:05 AM   #26
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@wbradley
Hi, I'm just wondering which safer and friendlier track day organizers, or motorsports activities you have moved on to?



I haven't been involved for a number of years, and it seems there are always new organizers, or even old ones that I am not familiar with anymore. I am trying to find other safer organizers to mitigate risks.


Thanks


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April 29/18 is the last track day I attended. Who said I have moved on to friendlier TRACK days? Maybe moved on to other recreational activities with friendlier people toward myself and less risk. That day educated me. . I have not made the effort to look elsewhere, just put a lot more money into other interests that I have a passion for. Honestly, I am WAY older than most of that crowd and as a younger boomer being heavily berated, decided not to return there for paid driving instruction. The biggest risk nowadays might be electric shock or soldering iron burn. My judgement told me this wasn't an enjoyable experience so move on. When I get on a track in the future, it will be in a very different set of circumstances.
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Old 05-26-2020, 09:11 AM   #27
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@wbradley
Understood. I thought you might have moved on to safer and friendlier recreational events that were related to motorsports.


Thanks.


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Old 05-26-2020, 09:16 AM   #28
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@wbradley
Hi, I'm just wondering which safer and friendlier track day organizers, or motorsports activities you have moved on to?



I haven't been involved for a number of years, and it seems there are always new organizers, or even old ones that I am not familiar with anymore. I am trying to find other safer organizers to mitigate risks.


Thanks


Alan C
I'd also like to point out, Northern Speed had nothing to do with these idiots. Again, this is like blaming CSCS, OTA or any other club just because a bunch of bad apples take part in their events outside of their control. The framing of the message absolutely matters - its a bunch of rich stupid kids who have more ego than brains who did a bunch of dumb stuff making us ALL look bad.

There are still plenty of solid track day organizers who run safe and fun events.

OTA has an event on DDT on May 31st (http://msreg.com/OTA2020E1) <- 90% sold out!

One of them is SPDA who has a DDT event on June 6th (https://goo.gl/vCCTzf).

Both of these are known, reliable and organized track days.
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