follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > 2nd Gens: GR86 and BRZ > BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics

BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-22-2021, 11:09 AM   #1
Blighty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: Pegasus White Toyota 86 GTS
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 615
Thanks: 598
Thanked 448 Times in 223 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
NA first drive days for BRZ? This week?

At the GR86 event, which was 2 weeks ago, all of the reviewers said they had to wait two weeks to drive the BRZ.

That's this week, or potentially really done?
Blighty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2021, 11:55 AM   #2
mjsbullitt
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Drives: NA
Location: Boston
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
May or may not be a reliable source but I read on the reddit ft86 discord that the BRZ reviews release or happen on August 30th.
mjsbullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mjsbullitt For This Useful Post:
Blighty (08-22-2021), Pete (08-22-2021)
Old 08-22-2021, 12:16 PM   #3
SockMonkey
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Drives: '13 BRZ Limited
Location: Maine
Posts: 73
Thanks: 28
Thanked 49 Times in 31 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
That sounds about right, the GR86 DRIVES happened 2 weeks ago, but couldn't release anything until the 17th. So while the BRZ drives might be happening about now, we likely wont see videos for another week or so.
SockMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SockMonkey For This Useful Post:
timurrrr (08-22-2021)
Old 08-22-2021, 03:01 PM   #4
timurrrr
Senior Member
 
timurrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: '17 BRZ with PP
Location: Between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Posts: 1,130
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 784 Times in 459 Posts
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I'm really looking forward to an independent comparison of a 2022 BRZ and a GR 86. I'm pretty sure Subaru will not be providing a GR 86 for comparison.
timurrrr is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to timurrrr For This Useful Post:
Pete (08-22-2021)
Old 08-22-2021, 03:31 PM   #5
~el~jefe~
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Drives: 2019 MX-5 RF
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 601
Thanks: 829
Thanked 240 Times in 153 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
every edition of the FRS/GT86, whatever, has been the unrefined version of the cars. the add-on parts back in 2016-2019+ "TRD" have always been a sort of teenage mix of things. 18" wheels lended nothing to the comfort or street effectiveness, spring changes, big huge wing, etc, all of it not tested and not tuned by actual engineers. the simple PP 2017 changes were all tested, the strut tower construction had even an addition, all tweaks not listed that Tcoat noted, special struts designed for it, made it smoother, quieter, less jarring of a ride, and perform better in every manner.

The GR86 has "more aggressive throttle mapping" which means it behaves like a turbo car, the exact reason we do not buy one. Linear NA engines are the whole point of things. then mention of the "iron knuckle" for suspension vs supposed Aluminum of the 2022 BRZ, "more of a touring car", means clearly less kiddie, more stable, more realistically faster for all circumstances, less youtube bro style.

Just my thoughts and they are all probably correct.
~el~jefe~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2021, 03:41 PM   #6
CincyJohn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Drives: 2020 Pearl Blue BRZ
Location: Cincinnati, OHIO
Posts: 109
Thanks: 23
Thanked 60 Times in 37 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~ View Post
The GR86 has "more aggressive throttle mapping" which means it behaves like a turbo car, the exact reason we do not buy one. Linear NA engines are the whole point of things.
As usual, I disagree with pretty much everything you said, but this quote is the most egregious.

First, not sure how many of us buy this car because it doesn't behave like a turbo car, but whatever. More importantly, though, the problem with turbo cars isn't "aggressive throttle mapping" to anybody I know, it's turbo lag.

What's particularly funny about your observation is that probably the worst characteristic, by far, of non-modded twins is the torque dip that occurs between 3000 - 4000 rpm (by the way, which is one of the reason I questioned your preference to keep cars bone stock - because if you haven't made an attempt to fix the torque dip problem on your BRZ/86 by AT LEAST tuning it, I don't know how you even drive it). Indeed, it ends up feeling like a turbo lag without the pay off that usually comes with it.

In any event, what aggressive throttle mapping actually means is that the pedal more directly controls the throttle. Not sure how anybody on here wouldn't be in favor of that, but thanks for you 2 cents anyhow, I guess.

Last edited by CincyJohn; 08-23-2021 at 10:51 AM.
CincyJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CincyJohn For This Useful Post:
trippinbillies40 (08-22-2021)
Old 08-22-2021, 03:45 PM   #7
~el~jefe~
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Drives: 2019 MX-5 RF
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 601
Thanks: 829
Thanked 240 Times in 153 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
no aggressive mapping means it fake bursts speed and is non linear. physics and chemistry do not change, bro-appeal is real
~el~jefe~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2021, 04:16 PM   #8
SockMonkey
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Drives: '13 BRZ Limited
Location: Maine
Posts: 73
Thanks: 28
Thanked 49 Times in 31 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
When I hear "aggressive throttle mapping" I think of the S# mode on the STI, where it just makes the throttle less linear. Where you depress the peddle 20% but you get like 90% throttle. So I get what ~el~jefe~ is saying about that.

But I don't quite understand what he means about the iron knuckle. Beyond cost savings, there isn't any benefit of adding more unsprung weight. The aluminum is better in every way besides cost. Why else would people spend so much to get forged wheels, lighter calipers and rotors, etc. etc. The extra weight was simply deemed OK simply for the $ savings.
SockMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SockMonkey For This Useful Post:
Dzmitry (08-23-2021), trippinbillies40 (08-22-2021)
Old 08-22-2021, 04:35 PM   #9
ayau
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: Some rust bucket
Location: Polar ice cap
Posts: 3,042
Thanks: 312
Thanked 1,039 Times in 552 Posts
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Let's stop with the misinformation.

"Aggressive throttle map" just means there's a throttle pedal to "torque" table in the ECM that allows the tuner to adjust how sensitive the throttle pedal is. Many modern ECMs have this table and it allows the OEM to easily differentiate between various driving modes (comfort, sport, sport +, etc).

This throttle pedal table is especially useful for modern small turbo cars that can make max torque at insanely low RPMs, which is why a lot of turbo cars give this surging feel when you accelerate. The table allows torque to be 'de-tuned' so it feels less punchy.

I would be surprised if the factory engine tune is different between the GR86 and the BRZ. A tune has to go through many tests (e.g., emissions) before it's approved. It may not be worth the additional costs when the point of these cars is to share the cost between Subaru and Toyota. Maybe 2 completely different tests don't need to be performed when the engine tune is minor. Who knows.
ayau is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ayau For This Useful Post:
Blighty (08-22-2021), Dzmitry (08-23-2021), SockMonkey (08-22-2021)
Old 08-22-2021, 05:28 PM   #10
timurrrr
Senior Member
 
timurrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: '17 BRZ with PP
Location: Between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Posts: 1,130
Thanks: 1,369
Thanked 784 Times in 459 Posts
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CincyJohn View Post
In any event, what aggressive throttle mapping actually means is that the pedal more directly controls the throttle. Not sure how anybody on here wouldn't be in favor of that, but thanks for you 2 cents anyhow, I guess.
OFT for 1st gens is known to have more "aggressive throttle mapping" than OEM.

It was so bad that I couldn't smoothly and reliably control weight transfer at the apex even when I tried really hard.
I made a custom throttle map that is a lot more linear, and it's way easier to control weight transfer in corners now.

I'd take linear throttle curve (with uniform sensitivity throughout the range)
over the one that makes the car feel faster without making it faster (but as a side effect making it harder to control)
any day.

Judging by other changes in the GR 86, and the history behind those changes, my intuition is that the BRZ is tuned to what Subaru engineers felt was best, whereas GR 86 was then re-tuned "to differentiate". Not necessarily to "what Toyota engineers felt was best".
timurrrr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2021, 05:30 PM   #11
CincyJohn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Drives: 2020 Pearl Blue BRZ
Location: Cincinnati, OHIO
Posts: 109
Thanks: 23
Thanked 60 Times in 37 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~el~jefe~ View Post
no aggressive mapping means it fake bursts speed and is non linear. physics and chemistry do not change, bro-appeal is real
What is a fake burst of speed vs. a real burst of speed - inquiring minds want to know.
CincyJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2021, 07:04 PM   #12
ayau
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: Some rust bucket
Location: Polar ice cap
Posts: 3,042
Thanks: 312
Thanked 1,039 Times in 552 Posts
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CincyJohn View Post
What is a fake burst of speed vs. a real burst of speed - inquiring minds want to know.
one is all in your head and the other can be measured on the dyno?

lol
ayau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2021, 10:40 PM   #13
Blighty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: Pegasus White Toyota 86 GTS
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 615
Thanks: 598
Thanked 448 Times in 223 Posts
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Pretty sure that more aggressive pickup would just make the throttle feel more responsive (though its not really).

That's the opposite of a turbo profile right?
Blighty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2021, 10:46 PM   #14
mjsbullitt
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Drives: NA
Location: Boston
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CincyJohn View Post
What is a fake burst of speed vs. a real burst of speed - inquiring minds want to know.

I'm guessing he means when they tune the throttle to be non-linear on purpose. Instead of the throttle pedal being a linear line from 0-100% throttle it's programmed to be sharper increase lower in the pedal progression. Depending on how they tune it you can feel like you're only pushing the pedal 30% and it's giving 80% throttle, etc... My WRX was like that and a tune made it much better. It "feels" like you're always flooring it but it just makes it harder to be smooth with.
mjsbullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mjsbullitt For This Useful Post:
Dzmitry (08-23-2021), timurrrr (08-23-2021)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NA first drive days for GR86 first week of August Sport-Tech GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) 186 10-04-2021 05:53 PM
Wheels and tires Sale of The Week! Different wheels every 7 days! Corner3garage Wheels and Tires 77 05-07-2015 05:47 PM
Really Terrible week so far after turning 21 4 days ago :( KamakazeProject Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 54 11-15-2013 09:59 PM
1 month, 20 days, and 1 week later... Plxdjake89 Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 36 07-31-2012 06:07 AM
volkswagen power days monza -- test drive golf gti -- lancie Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 0 06-21-2011 08:06 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.