CSG Spec Tein Flex A Owners Thread

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Var

With the drop spindle, my Flex A doesn't adjust high enough to get to my desired ride height. I want to order a taller rear spring to correct it.

... I was thinking of getting a 2 inch taller spring than stock as currently it has an absolute ass load of preload and adjusted as high as possible while still leaving enough threads engaged, ...

I don't think you're solving the right problem. You effectively moved the axle against the rest of the car. If you want to get back to the original ride height, you DON'T want to change the preload at all. Instead, you want to make the damper longer by as much as you've moved the axle against the suspension.

If you change the preload, you're affecting the amount of droop/compression travel. If you put too much preload, you won't have any compression travel, which will sacrifice comfort and performance. What's worse is that you might have too much compression preload and severely rub the tire against the fender liner, or possibly even metal above it. Bad things can happen if it happens in a corner.

If your droop/compression travel have previously been set up correctly, and you can't go back to the old ride height by just using the lower collar, you shouldn't use this drop kit with these coilovers.

[Var]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

I don't think you're solving the right problem. You effectively moved the axle against the rest of the car. If you want to get back to the original ride height, you DON'T want to change the preload at all. Instead, you want to make the damper longer by as much as you've moved the axle against the suspension.

If you change the preload, you're affecting the amount of droop/compression travel. If you put too much preload, you won't have any compression travel, which will sacrifice comfort and performance. What's worse is that you might have too much compression preload and severely rub the tire against the fender liner, or possibly even metal above it. Bad things can happen if it happens in a corner.

If your droop/compression travel have previously been set up correctly, and you can't go back to the old ride height by just using the lower collar, you shouldn't use this drop kit with these coilovers.

I want a longer spring so that I can take all the preload out of it. Am I misunderstanding how this works?

[strat61caster]

The length of the spring will not change your ride height unless your current springs have failed. The rating of the spring determines how much it compresses under load, if you have the same spring rate and same weight on the spring it will compress (approximately) the same amount no matter how long it is (lbs/in or kg/mm).

There is a chance the spring has failed, especially with extra preload applied to it (we experienced that from another manufacturer) and a higher quality spring of the same rate and similar length could do you wonders, but it's hard to tell over the internet. Are there signs of coilbind? I'd there missing paint all the way up and down the coils indicating full contact? You could attach a piece of blue tape on a middle coil go for a drive and find out that way if the tape gets worn through, that would be a good indicator of a failed spring easily replaced from Eibach or hyperco.

If you want to try a stiffer spring going up one notch (6k to 7 or 7 to 8, idr which your setup comes with) with a similar length should be just fine. Pull the old springs off and measure, go to Eibach or hyperco catalog and pick one that's just slightly longer than what you have free, I believe id is either 60 or 65mm, buying a 2.5" id spring 400#/in and probably about 7" Long is where I think you'll end up, but I haven't put hands on a set of teins for this chassis

I am assuming you have moved the lower perch as low as it can go to increase ride height and feel like you're out of options.

Edit: looks like tein uses 65 or 70 mm I'd springs so no go on the 2.5, this is probably the boy you want once you confirm id and original spring length.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/e...kaAnfuEALw_wcB

[Var]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The length of the spring will not change your ride height unless your current springs have failed. The rating of the spring determines how much it compresses under load, if you have the same spring rate and same weight on the spring it will compress (approximately) the same amount no matter how long it is (lbs/in or kg/mm).

There is a chance the spring has failed, especially with extra preload applied to it (we experienced that from another manufacturer) and a higher quality spring of the same rate and similar length could do you wonders, but it's hard to tell over the internet. Are there signs of coilbind? I'd there missing paint all the way up and down the coils indicating full contact? You could attach a piece of blue tape on a middle coil go for a drive and find out that way if the tape gets worn through, that would be a good indicator of a failed spring easily replaced from Eibach or hyperco.

If you want to try a stiffer spring going up one notch (6k to 7 or 7 to 8, idr which your setup comes with) with a similar length should be just fine. Pull the old springs off and measure, go to Eibach or hyperco catalog and pick one that's just slightly longer than what you have free, I believe id is either 60 or 65mm, buying a 2.5" id spring 400#/in and probably about 7" Long is where I think you'll end up, but I haven't put hands on a set of teins for this chassis

I am assuming you have moved the lower perch as low as it can go to increase ride height and feel like you're out of options.

Edit: looks like tein uses 65 or 70 mm I'd springs so no go on the 2.5, this is probably the boy you want once you confirm id and original spring length.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/e...kaAnfuEALw_wcB

Thanks for clearing that up. The reason it has extra preload is because the shop that installed the wisefab kit told me that they weren't comfortable raising it using the lower perch any further because there wouldn't be enough threads in contact if they did. I had asked them for a 1/4inch rake, but they could not even achieve neutral rake. That's when they decided to crank up the preload just to get the car to sit even front to rear. They told me upfront it was not an ideal solution but they didn't really have any other options

It rides horrible right now and it needs to be fixed, and I don't know what my options are. I bought the coils and the wisefab kit from CSG but I wasn't advised on needing any special coilovers to make this work. My only other options is to lower the shit out of the car. It would essentially have to sit 2 inches lower than stock which is not an acceptable solution.

Unless Tein or another company makes a compatible lower cup that's a couple of inches taller. I can't think of anything else.and even then, what would my control arm angles look like??

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Var

Thanks for clearing that up. The reason it has extra preload is because the shop that installed the wisefab kit told me that they weren't comfortable raising it using the lower perch any further because there wouldn't be enough threads in contact if they did. I had asked them for a 1/4inch rake, but they could not even achieve neutral rake. That's when they decided to crank up the preload just to get the car to sit even front to rear. They told me upfront it was not an ideal solution but they didn't really have any other options

It rides horrible right now and it needs to be fixed, and I don't know what my options are. I bought the coils and the wisefab kit from CSG but I wasn't advised on needing any special coilovers to make this work. My only other options is to lower the shit out of the car. It would essentially have to sit 2 inches lower than stock which is not an acceptable solution

Edit; you got a lowering wisefab kit, looks like you're going to have to live with being very low or very uncomfortable. Remove the wisefab kit or swap back to stock. Slightly stiffer spring will not fix being over an inch lower than what you want to be, a much stiffer spring will fix it but the damper won't be able to keep up and you'll still have a shit ride.

Edit 2: there's a chance that the shop was lazy and could have raised it without preload, you'll only know by checking for yourself. Likewise replacing a failed spring could offer a huge improvement, it's rare but not impossible.

[Var]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Edit; you got a lowering wisefab kit, looks like you're going to have to live with being very low or very uncomfortable. Remove the wisefab kit or swap back to stock. Slightly stiffer spring will not fix being over an inch lower than what you want to be, a much stiffer spring will fix it but the damper won't be able to keep up and you'll still have a shit ride.

Edit 2: there's a chance that the shop was lazy and could have raised it without preload, you'll only know by checking for yourself. Likewise replacing a failed spring could offer a huge improvement, it's rare but not impossible.

I didn't realize there were different types of kits. I just ordered the parts from CSG expecting that they would work together. I'm almost $3500 into this setup with labor. This situation is not kosher with me.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

you got a lowering wisefab kit, looks like you're going to have to live with being very low or very uncomfortable. Remove the wisefab kit or swap back to stock.

+1

Originally Posted by Var

I didn't realize there were different types of kits. I just ordered the parts from CSG expecting that they would work together.

I don't see any options on making them work together in a way that's better than running just the coilovers.

Originally Posted by Var

I'm almost $3500 into this setup with labor. This situation is not kosher with me.

I'm sorry for this situation! Overall it looks like you haven't done your homework, e.g. you could call/email CSG ahead of time to confirm compatibility.
Theoretically they could call you back to double-check after you made the order, but you can also imagine that their order processing team doesn't have all the knowledge or simply time to review every single order to that level of detail.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Var

I want a longer spring so that I can take all the preload out of it. Am I misunderstanding how this works?

See both videos from https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3344944

If you can't correctly set up the compression travel, the amount of preload you'll need to get the desired static ride height will cause
a) Harsh ride because your suspension reaches full droop too easily
b) On severe bumps, the bump stop will not work as early as it should, and the top of the tire will reach areas of the car that it's not supposed to reach. This can be VERY dangerous.

Originally Posted by Var

The reason it has extra preload is because the shop that installed the wisefab kit told me that they weren't comfortable raising it using the lower perch any further because there wouldn't be enough threads in contact if they did. I had asked them for a 1/4inch rake, but they could not even achieve neutral rake. That's when they decided to crank up the preload just to get the car to sit even front to rear. They told me upfront it was not an ideal solution but they didn't really have any other options

I would no longer trust a shop that
a) charged you money to install something they shouldn't even have attempted to install
b) agreed to do something that's outright stupid (as your can feel the ride is horrible) and borderline dangerous (hopefully you won't get a chance to test that)

Originally Posted by Var

It rides horrible right now and it needs to be fixed, and I don't know what my options are.

Remove the Wisefab kit, or call CSG in case they have some other options that we haven't considered. For example, they could sell a longer/custom damper sleeve.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The length of the spring will not change your ride height unless your current springs have failed. The rating of the spring determines how much it compresses under load, if you have the same spring rate and same weight on the spring it will compress (approximately) the same amount no matter how long it is (lbs/in or kg/mm).

You're confused.
Yes, the amount of compression at ride height depends on the ratio, not length.
But making a spring 10 mm longer, while keeping the spring rate and the position of the spring perch unchanged, will surely raise the rear by 13 mm (~0.75 motion ratio).

[CSG Mike]

The Wisefab is a drop knuckle by default. Preload is not affected by ride height; preload and height are not tied on the CSG FLA.

The Wisefab kit allows you to have a lower ride height without negatively affecting geometry, while allowing you to customize your toe and bump steer, as well as standard camber.

You also have 3 positions for the damper to sit in; putting it outermost will have the car natually sit slightly higher.

Typically the primary purpose of the Wisefab kit is to lower the car more, eliminte all rubber bushings, or run a longer damper body. Iirc yours was to make everything solid and articulate evenly, which the kit 100% accomplishes.

How low (or high) do you want to be?

[Var]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The Wisefab is a drop knuckle by default. Preload is not affected by ride height; preload and height are not tied on the CSG FLA.

The Wisefab kit allows you to have a lower ride height without negatively affecting geometry, while allowing you to customize your toe and bump steer, as well as standard camber.

You also have 3 positions for the damper to sit in; putting it outermost will have the car natually sit slightly higher.

Typically the primary purpose of the Wisefab kit is to lower the car more, eliminte all rubber bushings, or run a longer damper body. Iirc yours was to make everything solid and articulate evenly, which the kit 100% accomplishes.

How low (or high) do you want to be?

The Wisefab kit is great, but I was not told I was getting a drop spindle kit. I originally inquired about just getting solid bushings for the entire rear of the car and was suggested the Wisefab kit as an alternative by CSG because it was all inclusive. The sales rep did not mention that I would have a 3/4" reverse rake.

How high I want to be is as high as it was before the surprise drop spindle kit.

[Var]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

I'm sorry for this situation! Overall it looks like you haven't done your homework, e.g. you could call/email CSG ahead of time to confirm compatibility.
Theoretically they could call you back to double-check after you made the order, but you can also imagine that their order processing team doesn't have all the knowledge or simply time to review every single order to that level of detail.

This was THEIR SUGGESTION. I didn't even know what Wisefab was until their sales person recommended it to me as an all-inclusive alternative to what I was trying to achieve, which is to remove all the rubber out of the suspension. I had started off asking them about solid Cusco bushings.

I'm done arguing about this here, as it's going to take away from the purpose of this thread, which is the coilovers, which are quite good. This is going to get resolved by email in private. I originally came here to see if I could raise the car which was still coilover related. Thanks for everyone's input

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Var

The Wisefab kit is great, but I was not told I was getting a drop spindle kit. I originally inquired about just getting solid bushings for the entire rear of the car and was suggested the Wisefab kit as an alternative by CSG because it was all inclusive. The sales rep did not mention that I would have a 3/4" reverse rake.

How high I want to be is as high as it was before the surprise drop spindle kit.

There's a mega setup issue if you have a 3/4" reverse rake. You may want to check your setup, as both the front and rear kits equally adjust the roll center of the car.

Going Wisefab is definitely a better value than individually replacing every bushing with a spherical, particularly since every component of the Wisefab is replaceable in the event that it is damaged or worn out.

REMOVE all of the preload on your rear. Preloading the spring effectively lowers the car, and extreme preload will slam the car. if you are using preload to raise your car, you may run into bind.

Why not run the car lower with recommended CSG FLA settings, on the default Wisefab drop? The geometry is already compensated for, and will make the car handle like butter. The may be super low, but aerodynamically, that's better anyways!

[Var]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

There's a mega setup issue if you have a 3/4" reverse rake. You may want to check your setup, as both the front and rear kits equally adjust the roll center of the car.

I only have the rear kit. The person I consulted at CSG recommended me a rear-only drop spindle kit when i was simply looking for spherical bushings and/or arms with spherical bushings
To get the front low enough, my front geometry is going to be absolutely whacked out

REMOVE all of the preload on your rear. Preloading the spring effectively lowers the car, and extreme preload will slam the car.

That is literally the opposite of what increasing/decreasing preload did to my ride height.

Why not run the car lower with recommended CSG FLA settings, on the default Wisefab drop? The geometry is already compensated for, and will make the car handle like butter. The may be super low, but aerodynamically, that's better anyways!

same as answer 1

I'm not going to respond to anything further. Hit me up on DM or let's just drop it