Squat for '17+ Cars?

[phm14]

I appreciate all the suggestions. From what I've read so far, the data on the '13-'16 cars seems more sorted than for the '17+ cars. Apologies for the confusion and lack of specificity on my part. My current wish list/concerns are as follows: re-flash to stock myself if needed, pass Texas inspections, 93 is local, but would like to run 91 if 93 is not available, no clearance issues with header, heat soak (I'm in Houston), and don't want more sound than I have with the 5" muffled Nameless AB. I'd like to see at least 10 HP/torque peak gains, with more in the mid range. It seems a catless header is needed for this, even with the improved OEM header. I'd prefer not to have to wrap the header, as I've heard that's difficult to do without stressing the header due to unequal heat/cooling. The ACE350 seems to be on top for performance, but is very expensive. The Tomei UEL seems to be close, with more of a subie rumble (I like the idea of having a different note), but which tune is best bang for buck currently for the Tomei? Would the gains being significant over a good canned tune with the setup I have? I don't really want to spent time/money at the dyno for a custom tune.

[phm14]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Yeah, they do. Don't know where you heard this. There is less support for the 17+ cars, IE there are no off the shelf E85 tunes for the 17+ cars, but other tunes for different CALID's can be modified to work.

I was going by this page on the OFT site: https://www.openflashtablet.com/shop/oft-gt86-frs-brz/
The linked review/dyno is on a '13 car, with a complete exhaust system+, yielding 184 hp and 148 torque (peak). That's ~4hp & ~2ft/lbs more than what Justin reported for his stock '17 BRZ. Maybe different dynos are responsible?

[phm14]

Originally Posted by S0crates

An ft86speedfactory catted uel header and an oft 2 tune made my 2017 much more fun to drive. The car feels more powerful everywhere and adds a nice mellow rumble. For $1500, it was totally worth it, even if it only added something like 15-20 horses. There are headers that will give more power, but I wanted to keep a cat on a street car with some rumble.

That sounds reasonable. I'm at my sound limit with the 5" mufflered Nameless axleback. I wonder how much more noise the high flow cat would make? Going back to the stock muffler, with the catted header, would likely be significantly quieter than my current setup, to the extent I may want to sell the Nameless for a different axleback that would be closer to my current preferred sound Db level?

[Interflop]

Originally Posted by phm14

That sounds reasonable. I'm at my sound limit with the 5" mufflered Nameless axleback. I wonder how much more noise the high flow cat would make? Going back to the stock muffler, with the catted header, would likely be significantly quieter than my current setup, to the extent I may want to sell the Nameless for a different axleback that would be closer to my current preferred sound Db level?

Having done this exact setup, it will be louder with any aftermarket header, including catted ones. Catless will be slightly louder. An aftermarket front pipe can cut down a lot of the drone you probably get on deceleration. That was the case for me anyway after I got the Nameless FP/OP installed. The Nameless axleback is a bit on the louder end of the spectrum. If you want to go aftermarket header, look into maybe a Perrin catback to keep the volume down. The stock muffler works pretty well too.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by phm14

I was going by this page on the OFT site: https://www.openflashtablet.com/shop/oft-gt86-frs-brz/
The linked review/dyno is on a '13 car, with a complete exhaust system+, yielding 184 hp and 148 torque (peak). That's ~4hp & ~2ft/lbs more than what Justin reported for his stock '17 BRZ. Maybe different dynos are responsible?

You can't just go off that number, you need to look at the delta between the baseline dyno and the modded and tuned dyno. The car only made 154whp and 131ft/lb stock. That is 30hp and 17ft/lb increase.

[phm14]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Decat OEM header, decat front pipe, or if needed, replace OEM cat in front pipe with 200 cel metal cat, Ecutek tune using a "good" tuner.

I cannot stipulate more about finding and using a "good" tuner, travel if required.

People spend way to much money on shiny brand name parts that aren't really needed when NA tuning a "street" car.

Use the money saved from not buying unrequired parts on the "good" tuner and suspension upgrades.

When NA, if it's a street car you don't need to spend alot of coin on parts to make near 200hpatw, but for gods sake, get a real tune, not some one size fits none flash tune.

90% of people who say they can tune, cannot tune.

Look for a tuner who is well known in the race community and has a waitlist, and pay what he asks.

Only go remote tune if you live on the moon, hell, if you live on the moon, ship your car to the "good" tuner.

Have a look at my sig for some playing around I did when I had a 2017 86.

Opinions may vary

Also, most importantly, don't fall for marketing or the "sheep syndrome".

Happy journeys

Did I say find a "good" tuner.

Point taken, but what expense are you suggesting? I know your route is the quickest way to max gains, but aren't some "base" tunes developed yet, for specific headers, to a close enough result, without having to spend a fortune in time and money on a dyno? Anyone know a tuner in Houston that's worked on our platform for 3+ years? I really don't want to invest $1K+ in a locked, non-resellable tune for a car I may trade in on a gen 2 in two years...In most cases, stock condition cars bring more money, and custom tunes are a lost when I re-flash to stock, correct?

[phm14]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Are you looking for a catted header for noise reasons or emissions reasons? I don't think Houston is that strict. If you want a catted UEL header, I'd recommend the FT86SpeedFactory. You can get it coated for just over $1k and will work just fine with the OFT. Personally, if you want to squeeze the most out of NA, I'd recommend the ACE CS400 plus ECUTek tune by CSG. It's the perfect combo for daily driving.

I'll look into the FT86SF option. I've shied away from ACE so far, due to expense, lead time, clearance issues. I'm not looking to replace one problem (midrange), with other problems (fitment, loudness, rasp). I'm also not seeing coating as an option on the CSG packages...Is the coating option dropped? If so, why?
Edit: The FT86speedfactory catted options seem to tick some boxes, especially if if catless will likely have noise/rasp/inspection issues. Anyone have coating preference "black" vs "tungsten" (or is the difference cosmetic only?). I've watched the "Everyday Driver" linked video (again), which gives results/opinions, with no tune (I like the tone, but maybe a bit quieter...Perrin over their V1?). Would a V4 OFT/OTS tune play nice with my MY 20 with these parts? Had to fill out an email form to request a call back from them, and their catless headers are listed as "backordered". Will report results after someone calls me back.

[phm14]

On the state inspection side, we don't have visual under car inspection like CA. I'm wondering if the secondary cat will keep the tailpipe sniffer happy...I rather not have to reflash to stock, and certainly don't want to have to swap/re-swap exhaust parts. As noted above (today), I'd like to be able to flash back to stock without a visit to the tuner shop.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by phm14

I'll look into the FT86SF option. I've shied away from ACE so far, due to expense, lead time, clearance issues. I'm not looking to replace one problem (midrange), with other problems (fitment, loudness, rasp). I'm also not seeing coating as an option on the CSG packages...Is the coating option dropped? If so, why?

I know people had some fitment issues with the A350, but I've had none with the CS400. Also the CS400 really helps the midrange. The coating should be somewhere on their menu, I'm not sure where. But yeah, you will def. get rasp and noise with the ACE header. If that's the case, you should be good with the FT86 header.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by 86MLR

Decat OEM header.

I've been really debating on trying this for fun. I have a stock header collecting dust so why not.

[churchx]

I'd keep stock header "unmolested" . Imho always worth having stock parts around when time to sell the car (for higher price, if stock) will arrive.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by churchx

I'd keep stock header "unmolested" . Imho always worth having stock parts around when time to sell the car (for higher price, if stock) will arrive.

They are a dime a dozen used. Most likely my car becomes unstreetable or gets totaled before I sell it.

[JD001]

Originally Posted by Pat

This thread is not what I expected based on the subject line.

It's a bit like the Hokane Pictures thread... All confusing and not living up to the title...

[86MLR]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I've been really debating on trying this for fun. I have a stock header collecting dust so why not.

Do it

You don't even need to replace the cat body with straight pipe for really good gains, which is good for visual inspections if needed.

Plus you get to keep the OEM heat sheilding, which is a big bonus.

The OEM 17+ header, whilst not pretty (when you take the heat sheild off anyway), flows exceptionally well once the cat has left the building.

I did the same a few years ago with a MX5 NB exhaust manifold, the tube one not the cast one, yes there was a little power to have up high by changing to a aftermarket header, but a few more hp at 7500 means nothing on a street car.

Disclaimer: it's dealers choice if you have a race car though and you need that 5hp/nm (is your car a race car).

Meh, in other news, my LS1 is currently getting a 223 228 cam stuck in its belly, that should be good for driving to the shops to get the milk.