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Old 05-23-2018, 03:22 PM   #43
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To stop your car in the event of an emergency brake failure and to park.

But its not named that in the manual. Toyota/Subaru does not intend for it to be used in that manner. Would I use it in an emergency if my brakes failed? Probably, but I also take good enough care of my car that I wouldn't let the brakes get to that point in the first place. I wouldn't expect it to perform as a method of stopping my car in an emergency either.





And another side note, fun winter parking brake fact!
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Old 05-23-2018, 03:26 PM   #44
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I call it an e-brake or emergency brake because I only use it in emergency (the way you're supposed to)...

I never ever ever use it as a parking brake in socal. I have an automatic, plus turning your wheel onto the curb, plus putting the transmission in park is adequate for me. If I lived somewhere like San Francisco or in a location where people pushed your car to enlarge their parking space, it wouldn't make much difference. Plus if someone were to push your car with the auto tranny in park, having the e-brake pulled wouldn't make much difference in the damage to your tranny.
So you're saying that the proper use of the handbrake is to NOT use it when parking? That is simply untrue. The Owner's Manual of your car refers to it as a PARKING Brake; not an EMERGENCY Brake. The Owner's Manual also has setting the parking brake as part of the normal process for parking both automatic, and manual transmission vehicles. Because that's what you are supposed to do.

If you want to use the parking prawl in your automatic transmission vehicle to hold the car still, that's your prerogative, but that is IMPROPER OPERATION of the vehicle, regardless of how common it is to do. Using the parking prawl to keep the vehicle from rolling, especially on hills, puts stress on the prawl, and on the shift linkage, both of which can break as a result (think back to those times when you've had to tug really hard at the shift lever to come out of park on a steep hill because the prawl was loaded with the weight of the vehicle.)

Your statement regarding a vehicle bumping you from behind is also false. A firmly set parking brake WILL help prevent damage to your transmission if your vehicle is hit while parked, because it will prevent the wheels from rotating too much. Otherwise, such an impact can potentially snap the parking prawl. Not only that, but IF the parking prawl is snapped by an impact, your vehicle could roll away. With the parking brake engaged, even if the impact is violent enough to snap the parking prawl, the vehicle won't roll afterward, which itself could prevent more damage to your vehicle, or other objects/people.

It is simply wrong to not use it as a parking brake. That's what it is called, and that's what it is there for.

End of rant.
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Old 05-23-2018, 03:45 PM   #45
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But its not named that in the manual. Toyota/Subaru does not intend for it to be used in that manner. Would I use it in an emergency if my brakes failed? Probably, but I also take good enough care of my car that I wouldn't let the brakes get to that point in the first place. I wouldn't expect it to perform as a method of stopping my car in an emergency either.





And another side note, fun winter parking brake fact!
All true and accurate but will not change my use of the term since that is what I have called it for 45 years.


Although I have used them as parking brakes hundreds of thousands of times I have indeed used it as an emergency brake no less than 3. As I said earlier the main use in modern cars is indeed as a parking brake. The use in older vehicles often was due to brake failure no matter how ell maintained your brakes were.


Uses that I recall:
Army Deuce and a Half truck. Plug came out of air brake accumulator. Fully loaded truck. Emergency! Hand brake worked and nobody died.


1964 Impala. Hit dog on highway. Dog rolled under car taking brake lines with him. Emergency! Hand brake worked and nobody except dog died.


58 Chev. Sudden and catastrophic failure of single master cylinder seal. Headed into intersect at high rate of speed. Emergency! Hand brake worked and nobody died.


91 Eagle Talon. Hit piece of tire on highway. Took out both front and back brake lines. Heavy traffic (which is why could not avoid said tire part). Emergency! Hand brake worked and nobody died.


It is indeed intended to be used in that manner and hopefully it never will but if it does it will get the job done. Just don't pull the damn thing up into full lock!
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:08 PM   #46
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fun reading another over-analyzed ft86 thread
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:08 PM   #47
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I would be willing to bet that most of the cars brought into the US had them from that point as well but some States just did not (some still do not) require they be activated.
Back in 1990's I almost never saw cars with drl's. They were permitted in 1990 but not required till 1995. Manufacturers like to keep things cheap on the bottom end of the car models, by not including non required features. Just like ABS, In the United States, the NHTSA has mandated ABS in conjunction with Electronic Stability Control under the provisions of FMVSS 126 as of September 1, 2013. That means manufacturers could opt out of including this.

Canada has lower intensity of daylight due to latitude and having the DRL implemented as an mandatory requirement earlier than the U.S. was important. In reality, there has been research done that shows DRL doesn't have a big impact on accident prevention.
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:41 PM   #48
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Back in 1990's I almost never saw cars with drl's. They were permitted in 1990 but not required till 1995. Manufacturers like to keep things cheap on the bottom end of the car models, by not including non required features. Just like ABS, In the United States, the NHTSA has mandated ABS in conjunction with Electronic Stability Control under the provisions of FMVSS 126 as of September 1, 2013. That means manufacturers could opt out of including this.

Canada has lower intensity of daylight due to latitude and having the DRL implemented as an mandatory requirement earlier than the U.S. was important. In reality, there has been research done that shows DRL doesn't have a big impact on accident prevention.
LOL There are 27 States that are at least partially north of my part of Canada. There are 13 that are competently north.

How effective they are depends solely upon what study you want to side with.
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Old 05-23-2018, 06:52 PM   #49
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Happens to me too. Figured it was normal and no concern.
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:26 AM   #50
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Holy semantics, Batman!
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:48 AM   #51
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Holy semantics, Batman!

More like generational communication difficulties. (Its still a parking brake, and I use it as such).
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:52 AM   #52
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You are all wrong!

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Old 05-24-2018, 10:25 AM   #53
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I enjoy a good debate, so I'll keep it going :P

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For me yes, I don't use it, unless I was going to park on a major hill.
Again, it doesn't matter how YOU use it. You don't get to decide what proper vehicle operation is. Just because you don't use the parking brake, doesn't make it "correct operation" of your vehicle. It means you choose to operate your vehicle incorrectly. It might not have resulted in anything, but it's still wrong. That's like saying, "For me, correct operation of my vehicle is to always leave it running when I fill it with gas." Actually, no. You are using it wrong.

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Just because they choose to call it "parking brake", doesn't disassociate from being referred by everyone else as a hand brake, emergency brake, or e-brake. My guess, the lawyers chose the word that covered their butts the best. If someone applied the ebrake, and crashed, they could say that it was defective.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_brake
Parking brake or hand brake in automobiles, which can also be used in case of failure of the main braking system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parking_brake
In road vehicles, the parking brake, also called[1] hand brake, emergency brake, or e-brake,

Check further back, other members have already covered this in a post.
There is not a single vehicle I have ever seen that labels it as an Emergency Brake. Ever. It's always a (P) symbol for "Parking Brake". Even commercial vehicles label it as a "Parking Brake." The only reason people call it an emergency brake, is because it has become common practice to [incorrectly] not use that brake unless you are parked on a 45 degree incline. And so people now associate it with something that should only ever be used in emergencies. In reality, it's laziness that has lead to it being referred to as such. One day turn signals will also be referred to exclusively as "emergency signals" because so few people use them as is that eventually people won't even consider them turn signals.







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The manual also says:
"Driver distraction: Always give your full attention to driving. Anything that distracts the driver, such as adjusting controls, talking on a cellular phone or
reading can result in a collision with resulting death or serious injury to you,
your occupants or others."

So leave your cellphone at home, have them disconnect the radio and display as this might distract you, duct tape all occupants mouths and body so that they stay absolutely still and keep their mouth shut so they don't distract. If you want to go ahead and listen to the radio, and talk on the phone that's "IMPROPER OPERATION of the vehicle, regardless of how common it is to do." LOL
Except not doing those things would REALLY SUCK, so we accept that we must do them within reason. I'd love for you to explain to me the reason why setting the parking brake would be a HUGE inconvenience to you. Oh... right. It isn't. At all. It has literally NO downsides; only upsides. Not being able to adjust the air conditioning, or not being able to talk to your passengers has quite a few downsides.

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Sure it puts stress, when parked on a steep hill. No one I know uses their emergency break while parking.
Most people I know don't use their turn signals either. Or turn their headlights on at dusk. Or...

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The parking prong is engineered to withstand the stress of parking on a hill. Heck, I even engaged the parking prong at about 10mph when my brakes weren't working because an object lodged under the brake pedal. Rather than to crash in the car in front of me, I jammed it into park. (should have used the e-brake, don't know why I didn't) It did nothing to my 1995 nissan 200sx. I just heard a clonk and a little skid. Did I get lucky or was the transmission built to take that kind of force...who knows?
Lots of things are over-engineered on a vehicle. They have to be, because people are stupid and will misuse/abuse things. Have you ever seen the testing they put vehicles through during development? None of that is stuff anyone in their right mind would willingly do to a vehicle they cared about. Just because something doesn't break, doesn't mean you are supposed to use it in that manner. It just means the engineers were good at their job.

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Hmmm...I think it might more a "MIGHT" or "NOT". The emergency brake that is applied to only one wheel would have a negligible impact of preventing damage. Especially on our cars, that the automatic in P mode already immobilizes both wheels.
I'm confused. Are you suggesting that the Parking Brake only applies to a single rear wheel? Because that is incorrect.

As far as your examples, they are very specific, but I can give you plenty of others. What if you're in a parking lot, nose in to a spot, facing another vehicle. The vehicle in front of you pulled in after you, and is only 3 inches from your bumper (this is not an uncommon scenario.) Without the parking brake, it is likely that if someone else bumps your car while reversing out of their spot, it will easily roll at least those 3 inches, as the parking prawl method of parking leaves a LOT of slack in the drivetrain. With the parking brake immobilizing the rear wheels, you'll likely prevent having damage on both ends of your vehicle.

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If you feel safer using your e-brake everywhere. Great. You can do whatever you want that makes you feel safer. That doesn't make it wrong for us not to do something, that makes perfect sense in our situation.
But it doesn't make sense. That's the thing. Setting the parking brake is nothing but added protection. It doesn't inconvenience you. It doesn't lower your fuel economy. It doesn't do anything bad. It literally only does good things. It makes the shifter easier to pull out of park, and reduces stress on the shift linkage. It minimizes vehicle movement. It keeps the car from rolling an inch or two when you're leaning into the engine bay working on it. Etc... Why not set it? What's the argument to not set it other than, "because I don't want to?" That might be a "reason," but it isn't a very good one.

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Just like Toyota...here's my disclaimer. For everyone out there, please follow your vehicle manual instructions implicitely. I am not liable if you follow, don't follow, misinterpret my opinions, my links or data I post. You're mileage may vary. For best possible outcome, please park your car in a 50ft thick bunker, do not drive it, do not expose it to light. I'm not responsible for the destruction of your car when the sun goes Nova and swallows the earth and your car is destroyed. Please transport your car safely to mars.
I lol'd.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:31 AM   #54
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When my car is parked, it's in the P gear. In P gear, all the lights are okay to be off.

So by this logic, at night time, in case of emergency and you have to use the ebrake (yes, it's not the drifting handle) it will shut off your lights?
the ones that are on during the day are the day time running lights not the whole headlight. putting your car into park or pulling the e brake will not cut off the headlights off if they are on.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:42 AM   #55
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More like generational communication difficulties. (Its still a parking brake, and I use it as such).
What word is used is one thing and almost irrelevant since anybody should understand what is meant by calling it any of it's several names.
What floors me is the total lack of understanding on how and why it should be used when parking or the simple FACT that it only turns off the DRLs and not all the lights. Even back in the early days when the headlights were the DRLs it would turn them off when parked and the actual headlights were not turned on.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:54 AM   #56
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The only reason people call it an emergency brake, is because it has become common practice to [incorrectly] not use that brake unless you are parked on a 45 degree incline. And so people now associate it with something that should only ever be used in emergencies.

No not the "only" reason. I call it that simply because it was what I always called it. I have always used it to park (well when it even worked which it didn't on about 20% of my old cars) and just because I call it an "e-brake" does not mean for one second that I think it is only used for that,

I'd love for you to explain to me the reason why setting the parking brake would be a HUGE inconvenience to you.


I would be interested in that as well. It is literally the easiest thing you can do. It is even easier than pulling the keys out of the ignition.


I'm confused. Are you suggesting that the Parking Brake only applies to a single rear wheel? Because that is incorrect.


I read that part and sat in stunned silaence for several seconds. Since it was repeated I can only see that the belief was that there is only one wheel with a brake. I can't even...

As far as your examples, they are very specific, but I can give you plenty of others.

But he didn't say which way to turn the wheels when parking on an uphill slope.




Thanks. You saved me a bunch of writing.
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