Fujitsubo 4-2-1 manifold

[Yoshoobaroo]

So anyone know if this manifold is available by itself?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by mav1178

This isn't true... when I tried to work with them to get their prototype header produced for export market, it would've had a MSRP of $1200-1500 and the standard dealer discounts (which is upwards of 40% if you are direct with Cusco USA)



Alex

Does that include an over pipe ?

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

So anyone know if this manifold is available by itself?

Unfortunately no.

I wasn't able to convince Fujitsubo-san to sell just the header/OP for overseas market, he did not want to have liability. They're a lot like an OE manufacturer, everything is done carefully.

They have an existing manifold but it has a cat:

https://www.fujitsubo.co.jp/products/detail/2418

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Does that include an over pipe ?

Originally no, but we also never got past an initial market research phase of the discussion.

Alex

[LancePower]

Originally Posted by mav1178

They have an existing manifold but it has a cat:

https://www.fujitsubo.co.jp/products/detail/2418

Looks like this one is available state-side for $2000+

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by LancePower

Looks like this one is available state-side for $2000+

Yes but if you're after the 4-2-1 that OP wanted, it's not available by itself.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show....php?p=3027474

I posted about this header back in 2018 but the project stalled after they got feedback in Japan about end users (in Japan) wanting an entire performance system, so there was a decision made to sell it as a complete unit.

Unfortunately I was no longer with my previous company by the end of 2018, so I had no leverage over the updated version of this project when it was shown at TAS 2019.

Alex

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by mav1178

This isn't true... when I tried to work with them to get their prototype header produced for export market, it would've had a MSRP of $1200-1500 and the standard dealer discounts (which is upwards of 40% if you are direct with Cusco USA)

Alex

So, why didn't it happen? What's the liability difference between a full exhaust (more potential failing parts) vs a manifold only (one part)?

Fuji has always been on the extreme high end of pricing, and justifiably so.

[nikitopo]

I cannot justify Fujitsubo's price even as a complete exhaust and for me it is not similar to OEM quality. Unfortunately, no one builds like OEM in our cars. Having a manifold that is good looking, shinny and exceptionally welded is one thing. Having a manifold that lies on the underside of the car that needs a thermal shield for additional protection is another thing. The only improvement in quality I can see with the new catless design is that now you don't have the chance of a cat failure. There were cases that the sport cat was failing in their old design quite fast. Again not an issue with the factory one. Besides, it is nonsense to provide the manifold only with the full exhaust. What happens if someone uses the exhaust for 2-3 years and needs to replace only the manifold? Or the same with the overpipe. Does he buy again a complete new exhaust?

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I cannot justify Fujitsubo's price even as a complete exhaust and for me it is not similar to OEM quality. Unfortunately, no one builds like OEM in our cars. Having a manifold that is good looking, shinny and exceptionally welded is one thing. Having a manifold that lies on the underside of the car that needs a thermal shield for additional protection is another thing. The only improvement in quality I can see with the new catless design is that now you don't have the chance of a cat failure. There were cases that the sport cat was failing in their old design quite fast. Again not an issue with the factory one. Besides, it is nonsense to provide the manifold only with the full exhaust. What happens if someone uses the exhaust for 2-3 years and needs to replace only the manifold? Or the same with the overpipe. Does he buy again a complete new exhaust?

That last bit is a valid point. With the HKS Super exhaust or R-Spec, they come with a specialized front pipe, but the headers are the exact same that's already offered. So if something happened to it, you could easily replace it. However, I believe HKS has a warranty for the front pipe. It comes with a JASMA emissions cert as well as a warranty sheet to fill out. I hope/assume Fujitsubo does to?

[gpvecchi]

Do you know if the flanges are compatible with stock catback/axelback?

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

So, why didn't it happen? What's the liability difference between a full exhaust (more potential failing parts) vs a manifold only (one part)?

Fuji has always been on the extreme high end of pricing, and justifiably so.

MSRP is always high but their discount is also deep via Cusco, you already know that.

Why didn't it happen? 1) I left FR, 2) they didn't get more feedback from US market + "no demand" so they built it for their Japanese dealers, hence the single kit.

At the end of the day, vendors build based on demand. Plus Fujitsubo-san is not very informed about overseas markets, mostly because the stigma of over priced products is with end users.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I cannot justify Fujitsubo's price even as a complete exhaust and for me it is not similar to OEM quality. Unfortunately, no one builds like OEM in our cars. Having a manifold that is good looking, shinny and exceptionally welded is one thing. Having a manifold that lies on the underside of the car that needs a thermal shield for additional protection is another thing. The only improvement in quality I can see with the new catless design is that now you don't have the chance of a cat failure. There were cases that the sport cat was failing in their old design quite fast. Again not an issue with the factory one. Besides, it is nonsense to provide the manifold only with the full exhaust. What happens if someone uses the exhaust for 2-3 years and needs to replace only the manifold? Or the same with the overpipe. Does he buy again a complete new exhaust?

See above.

But the price is a function of Japan's pricing strategy: everything in Japan is priced on a MSRP based off 3-4x cost.

The US way of selling things isn't as popular in Japan, and people often make the mistake of Japanese MSRP / exchange rate = US MSRP.

On a cost basis, this exhaust kit can be had for cheap... just not enough demand. Plus, JPY fluctuates way too much so importers have to buffer for that.

Some things aren't for everyone, unfortunately the EPU as-is isn't for US buyers.

Originally Posted by weederr33

It comes with a JASMA emissions cert as well as a warranty sheet to fill out. I hope/assume Fujitsubo does to?

JASMA doesn't mean anything.

Virtually all street exhausts in Japan have that certificate, it's just a uniform standard for inspection. For the rest of us, it just means it meets a standard that is of zero relevance to us other than "oh it's street legal.... in Japan"

As for warranty, that's for the importer to figure out w/ the manufacturer. Cusco USA would probably give you some type of warranty coverage, but it would be on a case by case basis. I'm just speculating though, I'm not managing their brand.

Originally Posted by gpvecchi

Do you know if the flanges are compatible with stock catback/axelback?

The entire exhaust is built on interchangeable sections identical to stock. The catback portion is same as stock/aftermarket replacement units.

Alex

[CSG Mike]

If the results are there, the demand will also be there.

Case in point: Ace A350. Its still king, and still regularly is in backorder, even though it's very obviously expensive.

It's unfortunate that they can't at least publish something applicable to their international market. It's almost as if they just don't care, or have no interest.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Case in point: Ace A350. Its still king, and still regularly is in backorder, even though it's very obviously expensive.

Have you all had any experience with JDL's 4-2-1 EL yet? I recall 949 Racing commenting it had a similar power band to their former ACE350 but didn't fall off as much after 7200+.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Have you all had any experience with JDL's 4-2-1 EL yet? I recall 949 Racing commenting it had a similar power band to their former ACE350 but didn't fall off as much after 7200+.

More specifically, Emilio was able to decrease upper rpm losses after dictating how he wanted his tune to be done.

This was, unfortunately, after Zach had left delicious.

The JDL 4-2-1 is currently the second best header in terms of overall powerband. When hunting for bang/buck, it's a very strong contender, and has the additional benefit of being significantly easier to install than the Ace A350.




JDL 4-2-1 on CSG tune.

Note: no baseline, SAE correction. Only use the graph for powerband comparison, as delta is unknown without a baseline.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

More specifically, Emilio was able to decrease upper rpm losses after dictating how he wanted his tune to be done.

This was, unfortunately, after Zach had left delicious.

The JDL 4-2-1 is currently the second best header in terms of overall powerband. When hunting for bang/buck, it's a very strong contender, and has the additional benefit of being significantly easier to install than the Ace A350.




JDL 4-2-1 on CSG tune.

Note: no baseline, SAE correction. Only use the graph for powerband comparison, as delta is unknown without a baseline.

I saw that graph on a FB group and IG, the owner and JDL say that it is the UEL header not the 4-2-1.