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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 05-24-2022, 01:35 PM   #1093
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Iíve read a lot of preaching ďyou signed a written agreementĒ, or ďget the agreement in writingĒ like it means anything, meanwhile folks like you and tcoat fail to recognize that these written agreements only mean anything when itís to the dealerships benefit. As soon as a dealer smells a better opportunity, they take it, regardless of what they signed.

You also never answered my question, what recourse is there when a dealership backs out of signed agreement?
Are loads of legal actions you could take if they back out of a signed agreement. If people choose to not take that action because "it isn't worth the trouble" that is on them.
You are painting all dealers with the same brush. There are likely far, far more that honour their agreements than don't. The ones where the consumer get's screwed over are just the ones that we hear.
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Old 05-24-2022, 02:03 PM   #1094
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Are loads of legal actions you could take if they back out of a signed agreement. If people choose to not take that action because "it isn't worth the trouble" that is on them.
You are painting all dealers with the same brush. There are likely far, far more that honour their agreements than don't. The ones where the consumer get's screwed over are just the ones that we hear.
So by legal action you mean hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars to fight (lawyers), weeks to months of time invested over a dealership backing out of the deal? If that’s worth it to you, god bless. But I think I’ve heard enough from you two, you’re both too much lmao.
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Old 05-24-2022, 02:22 PM   #1095
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So by legal action you mean hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars to fight (lawyers), weeks to months of time invested over a dealership backing out of the deal? If thatís worth it to you, god bless. But I think Iíve heard enough from you two, youíre both too much lmao.
Well you have the choice though. Can't whine that the agreement isn't binding and then run away if they do not honour it.
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Old 05-24-2022, 02:52 PM   #1096
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So by legal action you mean hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars to fight (lawyers), weeks to months of time invested over a dealership backing out of the deal? If thatís worth it to you, god bless. But I think Iíve heard enough from you two, youíre both too much lmao.
Lots of options. But yeah - nothing anybody says is going to convince you otherwise so keep whining and crying about dealerships-stealerships.
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Old 05-24-2022, 02:53 PM   #1097
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Well you have the choice though. Can't whine that the agreement isn't binding and then run away if they do not honour it.
Donít assume people have the same amount of free time as you, or the free capital to pursue legal action.
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Old 05-24-2022, 03:14 PM   #1098
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Donít assume people have the same amount of free time as you, or the free capital to pursue legal action.
They have time to run around to multiple dealers and complain that they are being screwed over on here then they have time to file a complaint about breaching contracts. Doesn't take a lawyer.
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Old 05-24-2022, 05:58 PM   #1099
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They have time to run around to multiple dealers and complain that they are being screwed over on here then they have time to file a complaint about breaching contracts. Doesn't take a lawyer.
Ok
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Old 05-25-2022, 08:49 AM   #1100
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Put the deposit down with CC. If the dealer said it will be refundable and later change their tune, have the CC company do a charge back.

The root cause of all of this wasted energy is Toyota's lottery system for giving people cars. You know how you improve your chances of winning the lottery? You buy more tickets. Be mad about that, it'll achieve just as much.
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:14 AM   #1101
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Put the deposit down with CC. If the dealer said it will be refundable and later change their tune, have the CC company do a charge back.

The root cause of all of this wasted energy is Toyota's lottery system for giving people cars. You know how you improve your chances of winning the lottery? You buy more tickets. Be mad about that, it'll achieve just as much.
Depends on how long it is until the car shows up from the deposit. The legal minimum is 60 days, but most places will give 120. I'm already 30 days from putting down my deposit. And I really don't think the car will be here before the end of August.

But I knew it was non-refundable going in. I agreed to that and to finance through them to avoid paying over MSRP.
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Old 05-25-2022, 09:46 AM   #1102
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But I knew it was non-refundable going in. I agreed to that and to finance through them to avoid paying over MSRP.
Yeah that's a different story. For many, I'd totally understand taking that risk to lock in MSRP.

That said (and I think it's been mentioned here already) no deposit should be non-refundable forever. There should be some kind of time limit to it.

Considering customer preference requests have absolute zero bearing on what Toyota sends to a given dealership, and that there is no mechanism to prioritize filling aging requests, I believe it is entirely possible for a dealer to never ever get the car a customer asks for unless someone else in the region ends up with one that they don't want and they can trade. And I'm afraid it will be years before the GR86 market gets to be that way.
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:04 PM   #1103
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Put the deposit down with CC. If the dealer said it will be refundable and later change their tune, have the CC company do a charge back.

The root cause of all of this wasted energy is Toyota's lottery system for giving people cars. You know how you improve your chances of winning the lottery? You buy more tickets. Be mad about that, it'll achieve just as much.
But that does not improve your chances at all unless you are the ONLY one buying more tickets. When everybody buys more tickets your individual odds remain the same.
Lotteries also do not say "Oh look at all the extra people that want these tickets let's do a market adjustment on the price and mark them up by 10% since somebody will pay it".
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Old 05-25-2022, 12:36 PM   #1104
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But that does not improve your chances at all unless you are the ONLY one buying more tickets. When everybody buys more tickets your individual odds remain the same.
Lotteries also do not say "Oh look at all the extra people that want these tickets let's do a market adjustment on the price and mark them up by 10% since somebody will pay it".
Well, I think there are a lot more people not doing that than are doing it (always remember that this board is far from a representative population of the GR86/BRZ-buying public).

And you are wrong on improving your chances. If even 1 person is doing it and you are not, you are significantly lowering your chances vis-a-vis that person. More importantly, if everybody or almost everybody is doing it and you don't, you are significantly lowering your chances against almost everybody else.

As I have ALWAYS said, and despite what panties-in-a-twist Robertw might think, I have no problems with how ANY of the different parties in these scenarios are acting and fully understand that they all have different motivations. The only issue I have is when a party agrees to something, particularly in writing, and then tries to materially alter that agreement (or just whining at the situation in general).

In the case of juenedgi, the buyer tried to change the deal and the dealer said no.

In the case of drivejumpfly, the dealer changed the deal and deserves to be called out for it.
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Old 05-25-2022, 01:02 PM   #1105
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But that does not improve your chances at all unless you are the ONLY one buying more tickets. When everybody buys more tickets your individual odds remain the same.
In the regions close to me multiple deposits do not appear to be a widespread practice at all. There is no way to actually know, I'm basing this on the waitlists I'm aware of and my conversation with various salesman. The waitlists were mostly very short and surprisingly random. I figured they would be 90% PMT halo, red and neptune and it wasn't the case at all.

I suspect CA and other super populous areas are the only places this may be happening to any detrimental effect.

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Lotteries also do not say "Oh look at all the extra people that want these tickets let's do a market adjustment on the price and mark them up by 10% since somebody will pay it".
This is not a problem when you only work with MSRP-only dealers. Yes, the general artificial inflation of demand may cause some sort of ill effect, but that is 100% on Toyota as far as I'm concerned. If they actually cared, they would have a system like Subaru's in place where putting an "order" in actually meant something. There would be no multiple anything. Here's my name and money, give me an ETA and I'm done.

Anyhow, most dealers in my area that mark up don't even accept deposits. They get the car no strings attached so they can sell to the highest bidder once it's in their hands. This was the case with the Halo PMT I mentioned a few pages back.
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Old 05-25-2022, 01:04 PM   #1106
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Well, I think there are a lot more people not doing that than are doing it (always remember that this board is far from a representative population of the GR86/BRZ-buying public).

And you are wrong on improving your chances. If even 1 person is doing it and you are not, you are significantly lowering your chances vis-a-vis that person. More importantly, if everybody or almost everybody is doing it and you don't, you are significantly lowering your chances against almost everybody else.

As I have ALWAYS said, and despite what panties-in-a-twist Robertw might think, I have no problems with how ANY of the different parties in these scenarios are acting and fully understand that they all have different motivations. The only issue I have is when a party agrees to something, particularly in writing, and then tries to materially alter that agreement (or just whining at the situation in general).

In the case of juenedgi, the buyer tried to change the deal and the dealer said no.

In the case of drivejumpfly, the dealer changed the deal and deserves to be called out for it.
I said you are not improving your chances. Didn't go as far as saying you are loosing odds if you don't any everybody else does but that is sort of implied.

My sentiments on the subject of the contracts (that is what they are) are exactly the same as yours. Need to look at each individual case and see who screwed who not just blame the dealers for everything.
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