The Golden Age of Sports Cars - BRZ acclaimed as 2013 All-Star by Automobile Magazine

[Lo]

Originally Posted by Brzetto

I dump on the Camaro because it's a Government Motors car. I do business with companies who don't get their money from nefarious sources, not shady auto companies who instead of designing better cars get bailout money. Ford doesn't take handouts, they got their money the honest/right way.

+1. If I may add that they paid bonuses to their heads after getting said bailout money.

Originally Posted by Brzetto

America is the greatest country but we have huge flaws that need to be immediately rectified.

-1

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q49NOyJ8fNA"]The Newsroom "America is not the greatest country in the world anymore" 2012 TV series - YouTube[/ame]

No such thing as the greatest country.

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by Lo

+1. If I may add that they paid bonuses to their heads after getting said bailout money.



-1

No such thing as the greatest country.

You're in Quebec though, the rest of Canada hates Quebec. You're wrong about there is no such as the greatest country. America has been to the moon plus the first person to break the sound barrier was American. The Wright Brothers......I could go on for a while but we don't want to make Quebec more jealous do we?

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Brzetto

I dump on the Camaro because it's a Government Motors car. I do business with companies who don't get their money from nefarious sources, not shady auto companies who instead of designing better cars get bailout money. Ford doesn't take handouts, they got their money the honest/right way. America is the greatest country but we have huge flaws that need to be immediately rectified.

Oh, I did not realize we were talking about politics or economics. I thought we were talking about cars. I love cars. I hate politics. I hate economics. I did not like any of the bailouts but I was more in favor of the loans to GM than the ones to the Banks that caused the meltdown in the first place.

Anyway, the Camaro ZL1 is a great car. It weighs too much but the motor makes up for it and then some (just ask all the Japanese drifters who are bolting LS motors into their cars) and the suspension handles the road so well the it belies the mass of the car. My brother owns a 2013 ZL1 that we recently took to run the Tail of the Dragon and the Skyway. The Dragon was a little tight for it but on the Skyway with its sweepers and switchbacks it was a monster.

Anyway, glad the BRZ/FR-S, Camaro and Boxster got some love although I would have picked the Cayman instead of the Boxster for that slot.

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Oh, I did not realize we were talking about politics or economics. I thought we were talking about cars. I love cars. I hate politics. I hate economics. I did not like any of the bailouts but I was more in favor of the loans to GM than the ones to the Banks that caused the meltdown in the first place.

Anyway, the Camaro ZL1 is a great car. It weighs too much but the motor makes up for it and then some (just ask all the Japanese drifters who are bolting LS motors into their cars) and the suspension handles the road so well the it belies the mass of the car. My brother owns a 2013 ZL1 that we recently took to run the Tail of the Dragon and the Skyway. The Dragon was a little tight for it but on the Skyway with its sweepers and switchbacks it was a monster.

Anyway, glad the BRZ/FR-S, Camaro and Boxster got some love although I would have picked the Cayman instead of the Boxster for that slot.

To be fair about the bank statement, the democrats forced the banks to loan to unqualified people.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

My buddy bought a SS 1LE a few weeks ago and brought it over. Took me out for a ride in it and I was very shocked.

First time I had ever been in a (new body) Camaro and I was very impressed. I hate GM with a passion and it pains me to say this but, I think the Camaro has the Mustang beat hands down.

For such a large and heavy car I did not feel disconnected from the road in the Camaro like I did the Mustang. Handling was superb and the power/acceleration was scary.

I technically see the Camaro as a American Muscle-car.
I see the FR-S as a compact sports car.

Two different markets and both impressive in their own light.

EDIT (sorry he did not get a ZL1 he got a SS with the 1LE package)

I'm with you. The ZL1 was the other car on my "short" list when I got the FR-S (as were a couple of other cars that make no more sense together than these two do so no one please start the "how could you cross shop the two?", been there answered that one, ain't gonna get into it). Bottom line, Camaros have always been on my short list and I've owned one or two although several of the generations left me cold. The current body style to me ranks third behind the 60's model, and maybe the early 80's model. The other generations, meh.

It should have been lighter but the Camaro has never been a "light" car.

I love the ZL1. I actually prefer it in many ways over the FR-S, but not for the difference in price between the two. Had the FR-S been a $35,000 car, I probably would have bought the ZL1 instead. One day I'll probably buy a used one just because.

I drove several versions of the current body style Camaro. I had no issues with visibility, and really don't think its more limited than the Twins. It was definitely better than my wife's Mustang convertible (with the top up, obviously). To me it also drove much "lighter" than it looks, even in the base models without all the technobabble helping out.

Just my opinion.

[PMok]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I have no idea what you're asking but I'll take a guess:

"Will upgrading the brake lines be useful for daily driving?"

The answer is probably not, you won't feel very much difference and if performance is an issue (your brakes are overheating, which is the only reason to "upgrade" because they have more than enough "stopping power" in stock configuration) then you're probably driving much too aggressively for public roads.

Even for track use I don't think the brake lines need to be upgraded, many people use a high temp brake fluid and pads for track use and swap between the OEM pads and track pads before hitting the track or heading home.

Unless you're in a high competition arena and you're running the car hard enough to need the upgrade, in which case you probably wouldn't be asking here.

At the risk of taking this thread off to another tangent, I had to respond to this statement. I do think a SS brake line upgrade is a worthwhile (and fairly easy) mod if you care enough about brake pedal feel. Some people value and prefer a firm brake pedal feel and SS lines are how you can get that feel and get rid of the mushy pedal feel that most stock cars come with. I got behind the wheel of a car equipped with SS lines and immediately felt a difference just on street driving. You don't need to be in a competition or even on a track to appreciate the improvement you can get from a set of SS lines.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by PMok

At the risk of taking this thread off to another tangent, I had to respond to this statement. I do think a SS brake line upgrade is a worthwhile (and fairly easy) mod if you care enough about brake pedal feel. Some people value and prefer a firm brake pedal feel and SS lines are how you can get that feel and get rid of the mushy pedal feel that most stock cars come with. I got behind the wheel of a car equipped with SS lines and immediately felt a difference just on street driving. You don't need to be in a competition or even on a track to appreciate the improvement you can get from a set of SS lines.

Personal experience: just a straight stainless steel line conversion comparing the same car is unnoticeable, especially if you drive it in the morning and then in the afternoon after the conversion. I would be surprised that a car with no other changes is noticeably different, if you're changing calipers and pads as well then it's not really noticeable, I'm curious about the car you drove.

If you're after a firm pedal you're better off messing with the brake assist to get better feedback.

[PMok]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Personal experience: just a straight stainless steel line conversion comparing the same car is unnoticeable, especially if you drive it in the morning and then in the afternoon after the conversion. I would be surprised that a car with no other changes is noticeably different, if you're changing calipers and pads as well then it's not really noticeable, I'm curious about the car you drove.

If you're after a firm pedal you're better off messing with the brake assist to get better feedback.

My BRZ has stock brake lines. I wasn't very satisfied with the pedal feel even after flushing/bleeding the lines, so I got the GrimmSpeed MCB. I know others said they didn't feel much change from that but I felt the pedal was noticeably firmer, a move in the right direction for me. Then I got behind the wheel of a friend's FR-S who had the Stoptech SS lines installed. Everything else stock. I was immediately impressed how much firmer the brake pedal felt in his car. In hindsight for nearly the same money I should have bought the SS lines over the MCB, but the MCB is significantly easier to install so I thought I'd try it first.

FWIW my other car is a 2000 MR2 Spyder and I also installed SS lines on it several years ago, for the same reasons - much better brake pedal feel from it than stock.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by PMok

My BRZ has stock brake lines.

I appreciate the detailed description for you opinion, to each their own.

:happy0180: