New ICE Vehicles Banned in California by 2035

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

They should have another test for people who drive aggressively fast like assholes because my average would probably be terrible.

That would be true for ICE as well. Maybe a new rating for both called the "assholery range"?

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Real world economy will depend on regen and someone’s right foot like it is for ICE vehicles, so I don’t know if it matters unless the discrepancy would be a deal breaker.

EV range has much more variability than ICE based on everything running off the battery. Add heat/cooling/running the entertainment system, running the windows up and down, are the seats on, are three passengers charging their phone, etc, etc, it all adds up.

I'm not an electrical engineer but I have wondered if a wind powered alternator would not provide more advantage than the parasitic drag it would produce if it were in the right place in the slipstream.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I'm not an electrical engineer but I have wondered if a wind powered alternator would not provide more advantage than the parasitic drag it would produce if it were in the right place in the slipstream.

No... Similarly, if you put a small generator on the front wheels, that won't generate net positive power either! I can't tell you how many people offered us these genius ideas when I was in the electric vehicle biz! And one of them was interviewing for an engineering job! He did not get it...

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

That would be true for ICE as well. Maybe a new rating for both called the "assholery range"

EV range has much more variability than ICE based on everything running off the battery. Add heat/cooling/running the entertainment system, running the windows up and down, are the seats on, are three passengers charging their phone, etc, etc, it all adds up.

I'm not an electrical engineer but I have wondered if a wind powered alternator would not provide more advantage than the parasitic drag it would produce if it were in the right place in the slipstream.

Just FYI, all that stuff that you mentioned that runs off the EV battery also runs off gasoline in ICE vehicles and affects their range and fuel efficiency. We just don’t consider it because we refuel quickly. This is true of speed, wind resistance, having windows open, etc. My wife’s Q5 warns us to close our windows at speed to reduce drag for better fuel economy.

Wind resistance could be used to power a generator, but it would need to be deployed during breaking, so an air duct would open to allow air through a restricter with a turbine for generating power. My guess is brake-based regen is far more efficient than air based regen that it wouldn’t be worth the effort.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

That would be true for ICE as well. Maybe a new rating for both called the "assholery range"?



EV range has much more variability than ICE based on everything running off the battery. Add heat/cooling/running the entertainment system, running the windows up and down, are the seats on, are three passengers charging their phone, etc, etc, it all adds up.

I'm not an electrical engineer but I have wondered if a wind powered alternator would not provide more advantage than the parasitic drag it would produce if it were in the right place in the slipstream.

Fun fact, wind turbine mounting structures load calculations are based on the blade area being a solid disc, as the impedance to airflow the blades provide is technically similar.

So next time you pass a wind farm, imagine sticking that large of a flat disc of material up on a stick in a windy area, when I can't even hold a 4x8' sheet of plywood up in my driveway!

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Just FYI, all that stuff that you mentioned that runs off the EV battery also runs off gasoline in ICE vehicles and affects their range and fuel efficiency. We just don’t consider it because we refuel quickly. This is true of speed, wind resistance, having windows open, etc. My wife’s Q5 warns us to close our windows at speed to reduce drag for better fuel economy.

Wind resistance could be used to power a generator, but it would need to be deployed during breaking, so an air duct would open to allow air through a restricter with a turbine for generating power. My guess is brake-based regen is far more efficient than air based regen that it wouldn’t be worth the effort.

Heating in an ICE vehicle is a byproduct. There's no cost difference to using it or not using it.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Just FYI, all that stuff that you mentioned that runs off the EV battery also runs off gasoline in ICE vehicles and affects their range and fuel efficiency.

Well it really runs more off parasitic drag (the alternator, compressor, etc) than gas but yes indirectly you are correct.

My point is it is unfortunate they can't figure out a way to power this on some type "renewing" energy or force when driving. The vehicles that use a heat pump for heating and cooling do this to some extent, similar to how an ICE heats as part of the cooling system of the vehicle.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by ZDan

No... Similarly, if you put a small generator on the front wheels, that won't generate net positive power either! I can't tell you how many people offered us these genius ideas when I was in the electric vehicle biz! And one of them was interviewing for an engineering job! He did not get it...

Completely get the small generator option, which was why I was thinking more of a wind driven generator in some type of forced air situation. With no technical knowledge it makes sense, but I also understand the drag probably reverses any real gain. Wishful Physics I guess on my part.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by soundman98

Heating in an ICE vehicle is a byproduct. There's no cost difference to using it or not using it.

Heat is a byproduct of EVs too that is captured through Tesla’s Octovalve. EVs are much more efficient, so there is far less wasted heat to use for cabin heat, so if someone has the heat on blast in the cold then yes it will decrease range.

Tesla’s Octovalve Enabled A Staggering 10% Increase In Range For The Model Y
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/03...r-the-model-y/

[alex87f]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Heat is a byproduct of EVs too that is captured through Tesla’s Octovalve. EVs are much more efficient, so there is far less wasted heat to use for cabin heat, so if someone has the heat on blast in the cold then yes it will decrease range.

Tesla’s Octovalve Enabled A Staggering 10% Increase In Range For The Model Y
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/03...r-the-model-y/

While I don't doubt the fact efficiency can be gained on a EV through better heat mgmt, I'd take any positive Tesla news with a grain of salt when the article is followed by a Tesla referral code.

But yeah, apart from these gains there are no physics-bending way to run ancillaries. Any energy has to come from somewhere, just like it does on an ICE's ancillaries.

I do wonder whether a steam turbine would make sense to generate electrical power on an ICE, since 60% of gasoline's theoretical power is dissipated.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

Hi I don’t get this. If it’s hideously ugly I don’t want to be seen in or emerging from it - no matter who’s driving.

I occasionally consider truck camping. It might be fun to put a camper too on the bed of my old F150. But my boss would never let that happen. Minivans? I don’t think so.

Edit. Wife and I have concluded that, given where we live, driving 1000 miles to get to the beginning of interesting stuff is not fun.

So, the plan is to fly/rent/drive from here on out.

I'd probably consider the Lexus LM more "gaudy" than "ugly"
IMO that just means its ugly but in a more prestigious manner, appealing to folks who have more money than taste. Not to say the LM ISNT ugly (it looks like a bus...that new look Lexus face grille is far too tall in this application)

Something like the Pontiac Aztek is just plain ugly, and that's because its got no redeeming qualities over any other standard CUV that's worth overlooking the face. Even BMW's pignose on the new 4 series. Every time i look at it i CANNOT get used to it. Its one of those designs that i thought over time it'll grow on you or you get used to it...but i just cant....its just...godawful.

[MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires]

Originally Posted by alex87f

While I don't doubt the fact efficiency can be gained on a EV through better heat mgmt, I'd take any positive Tesla news with a grain of salt when the article is followed by a Tesla referral code.

But yeah, apart from these gains there are no physics-bending way to run ancillaries. Any energy has to come from somewhere, just like it does on an ICE's ancillaries.

I do wonder whether a steam turbine would make sense to generate electrical power on an ICE, since 60% of gasoline's theoretical power is dissipated.

love too journalism

That’s staggering and speaks to not only Tesla’s mastery of battery technology, but mastery of innovation. This is not an electric vehicle improvement, a motor improvement, or a new battery chemistry. Rather, it showcases Tesla’s willingness to tackle and become the masters of a completely new competency to improve its vehicles

In the Tesla Model Y, the heat pump was a true engineering marvel. Elon admitted on the podcast that he has a trophy rack of impressive tech his teams have come up with in his bedroom at home. The new printed circuit board (PCB) for the Tesla Octovalve was so impressive to Elon that he added it to his bedroom trophy rack.

and lol, the bio of course:

Kyle Field
I'm a tech geek passionately in search of actionable ways to reduce the negative impact my life has on the planet, save money and reduce stress. Live intentionally, make conscious decisions, love more, act responsibly, play. The more you know, the less you need. As an activist investor, Kyle owns long term holdings in Tesla, Lightning eMotors, Arcimoto, and SolarEdge.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I was born in 82' and can remember far more roof racks with camping equipment on the cars and bicycles and ski's attached to the top of vehicles. Now everything has been moved inside. Safety? Rain? Theft?

The word you're looking for is laziness.

[bcj]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

ugly but in a more prestigious manner

concise

... nail -> head ... but POSH

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by ZDan

No... Similarly, if you put a small generator on the front wheels, that won't generate net positive power either! I can't tell you how many people offered us these genius ideas when I was in the electric vehicle biz! And one of them was interviewing for an engineering job! He did not get it...

We had a company approach us like 10ish years ago about making an energy recovery system that would work with one of our units with a 6.5hp Honda general purpose engine. Basically a generate and immediately deploy hybrid system. It took more power to generate energy to move the unit then the engine produced