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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 03-11-2020, 01:08 PM   #71
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Why is digressive better than linear?
I just said it was nice.

- Andrew
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Old 03-11-2020, 01:19 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering View Post
I just said it was nice.

- Andrew
You just messing with me now?

Sounds like digressive does a similar thing as triple adjustable shocks?
Tune the high speed vs low speed damping?
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Old 03-11-2020, 01:23 PM   #73
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@racingfool yup, I decided to stop making my hobby more complicated than my day job and copied someone with results when it comes to damping. 4 years ago I would have thought the damping curves on my current setup were mediocre at best.

At an amateur level driving skills will make up for imperfect equipment 95% of the time.

Edit: imho don't overthink what @steverife posted, ideally a soft high speed absorbs road imperfections but most sacrifice low speed damping to do it which increases body control with driver inputs. The Penske options are mixing and matching theories because they have the skills and precision to mess with that based on customer restrictions (suspension geometry, tire characteristics, track types). They still supply dampers for multiple F1 teams last I checked, the fact that as a consumer you can pick up a set pretty cheap on some cars is lovely.
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Old 03-11-2020, 01:53 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by racingfool View Post
You just messing with me now?

Sounds like digressive does a similar thing as triple adjustable shocks?
Tune the high speed vs low speed damping?
Haha sorry about that. I will be posting a tech article on dampers on our theapexfiles instagram next week that will include a brief blurb on digressive/linear/progressive valving. More detailed articles to follow and I'll eventually post them all on here.

Digressive is generally a good thing for track driving, however IMO a lot of companies don't execute it as well as they could (for different reasons). Also conventional track dampers may not be the best choice for say...a stage rally car.

Digressive valving means a higher damping ratio (not more force) in the "low piston speed" range than the high piston speed range. You'll see a noticeable "knee" in the shock dyno plot for compression and/or rebound. You can do that with a digressive piston, or a linear piston, or other fancy ass Penske pistons. Adjustable dampers may be digressive in some settings and linear at others. Or even progressive at low and medium piston speeds until a "blow off" at a knee.

Too much high speed damping can be harsh/crashy. Not enough can increase the occurrence of bottoming out or a bouncy ride. You can also have too much or too little low speed force. A digressive damper can still suck.

- Andrew

Last edited by Racecomp Engineering; 03-11-2020 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 03-11-2020, 07:09 PM   #75
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Here's an eample.

Say you have a shock with high speed adjustment. The way the high speed adjusters typically work is to add or reduce preload on the shim stack with the adjustment screw. preloaded shims are bent a tiny bit while resting. The bigger the preload/bend the more digressive the profile.

Now lets say you want to replicate damping profile of the high speed adjustable shock on a shock that does not have high speed adjustment. You can "build" the preload into the shim stack using a ring-shim to have the same digressive behavior has the high speed adjustable shock with a digressive setting. Say you want to go the opposite direction and mimic the adjustable shock while at the higher bleed or softer setting (-30 click on a 32 click shock). You can build the same amount of bleed in to the valving on the non-adjustable to achieve the same damping curve as -30 click on the adjustable.

In this sense the 3-way shock can be a digressive linear and even progressive depending on what the adjustments allow and the valving. That's why they are big ticket item. Then it come down to 'do you even need that?' Secondly, just because you got all the knobs it doesnt mean its going work the way you want it to. In other words, just because they are expensive and have all the nice CNC anodized finish and tech doesnt mean they wont suck and be way off target.

This also means that if done right, a single or even non adjustable shock has the potential be pretty impressive just without the flexibility of the fancier shock. You have one very good setting (be it digressive or just slightly digressive linear valving) vs 356 different setting you can dial on the adjustable shock which only maybe a couple of those 356 setting you will ever use. Worse yet, you can end up with a shock with 365 setting but non of which work.
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Old 03-11-2020, 09:03 PM   #76
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I was enjoying the sway bar thread

I recently installed WL 20F and 16R and am looking forward to seeing the difference they make. Car in still on jack stands.

I also had the Ohlins R&T and bumped up the rear springs to 4K to match the front.
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Old 03-11-2020, 09:09 PM   #77
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I was enjoying the sway bar thread

I recently installed WL 20F and 16R and am looking forward to seeing the difference they make. Car in still on jack stands.

I also had the Ohlins R&T and bumped up the rear springs to 4K to match the front.
My bad.. No more damper talk on his thread. Nice set up. Looking forward to hearing your feedback.
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Old 03-11-2020, 09:14 PM   #78
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My bad.. No more damper talk on his thread. Nice set up. Looking forward to hearing your feedback.

Thnaks. The car is down to 2450ish lbs and I really liked the way it performed on track last year. I'm getting a bit quicker and started to notice a bit too much diving on the left front on a right hand turn so hope the sways help. I'll have both F and R set on full soft to start. It'll fly over berms and stay settled and when it's does roll it settles almost instantly.


I love this car!
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