More confirmation from Toyota on next gen 86

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Agreed! But 226 is not the rumour.

Which rumour is the “right” rumour then?

Isn’t all this speculation entertaining...

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Believable even if just made in their office by somebody with what appears to be a 15 year old graphics program.

Yeah idk why renderings from Japanese car magazine always look animeish.

Anyways, what our friend has to say about the rendering when ask by a fellow forum member.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/sec...ad.1738/page-8

Originally Posted by GT-3

Not really, headlamp shapes similar but front end treatment was slightly different, not much but slightly. Opening to radiator on both sides was more 90 degree to top and bottom on edges vs slightly angled

[Hoahao]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

https://www.motoring.com.au/tokyo-mo...reveal-120681/

And the “pièce de résistance”, article from motoring.com.au

Interesting to see if anything is revealed at the Tokyo Motor Show next month according the article.

Letter to the editor if it’s wrong lol: mike.sinclair@carsales.com.au

Bah, Humbug!!

That Punk needs a shave and a hair cut!!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Hoahao

Bah, Humbug!!

That Punk needs a shave and a hair cut!!

Here that it is only two bits.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ahhh but see that is the kicker. Everybody seems to think (want?) at least a 30% increase.

Of course more is better, but +10% to ~230hp would be a meaningful bump and would be easily achieved NA with 2.4 liters

People are already replacing almost every single component from brakes to suspension because they are not robust enough to take track time.

non-PP brakes with decent pads and fresh DOT4 are fine. PP brakes I have are massive for 205hp, could easily deal with more. Suspension mods aren't really related so much to power output, at least at this level...

There are plenty of examples through the annals of automotive history where power has been added and weight has not gone up. IMO 225-240hp would be relatively easy to get without any impact on weight.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Of course more is better, but +10% to ~230hp would be a meaningful bump and would be easily achieved NA with 2.4 liters

non-PP brakes with decent pads and fresh DOT4 are fine. PP brakes I have are massive for 205hp, could easily deal with more. Suspension mods aren't really related so much to power output, at least at this level...

There are plenty of examples through the annals of automotive history where power has been added and weight has not gone up. IMO 225-240hp would be relatively easy to get without any impact on weight.

The last couple of decades counter that though. The cars get more power but also bloat and get heavier even if in theory they don't need to. I really think more power and same weight is not likely. More power and less weight is right out of the picture. At least at the current price point. Both could be done for a higher cost.

[mazeroni]

It'll have to be called the Celica, right?

The marketing for the Supra seemed effective. The name Celica will certainly resonate with a much larger audience, especially if you use the same "It's Back!" type of marketing.

If Tada put his foot down and fought off the board and wrangled Subaru onto his side to get them to engineer a 2.4 that still manages 100 hp/liter, passes emissions, and doesn't harm the EPA numbers, then woohoo. It would be quite the accomplishment. Aside from Ford's Coyote that is big and high revving.

As for weight, my uninformed opinion is that they have had enough time to rethink the chassis to find ways to adjust the mix of steel and aluminum that they should be able to offset a potion of any gains. Still, it would not surprise me if a theoretical next-gen car with an even more theoretical 2.4 weighed 3,000 pounds or more.

That is unless the existing chassis just wasn't that well designed, and by re-engineering the body they find 100~200 pounds.


Also, I like the render. It looks like an Elise/ Exige.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

It'll have to be called the Celica, right?

The marketing for the Supra seemed effective. The name Celica will certainly resonate with a much larger audience, especially if you use the same "It's Back!" type of marketing.

If Tada put his foot down and fought off the board and wrangled Subaru onto his side to get them to engineer a 2.4 that still manages 100 hp/liter, passes emissions, and doesn't harm the EPA numbers, then woohoo. It would be quite the accomplishment. Aside from Ford's Coyote that is big and high revving.

As for weight, my uninformed opinion is that they have had enough time to rethink the chassis to find ways to adjust the mix of steel and aluminum that they should be able to offset a potion of any gains. Still, it would not surprise me if a theoretical next-gen car with an even more theoretical 2.4 weighed 3,000 pounds or more.

That is unless the existing chassis just wasn't that well designed, and by re-engineering the body they find 100~200 pounds.


Also, I like the render. It looks like an Elise/ Exige.

THIS ^
To bad we don't have a similar sized brand new Toyota sports car to compare weight with.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

It'll have to be called the Celica, right?

The marketing for the Supra seemed effective. The name Celica will certainly resonate with a much larger audience, especially if you use the same "It's Back!" type of marketing.

If Tada put his foot down and fought off the board and wrangled Subaru onto his side to get them to engineer a 2.4 that still manages 100 hp/liter, passes emissions, and doesn't harm the EPA numbers, then woohoo. It would be quite the accomplishment. Aside from Ford's Coyote that is big and high revving.

As for weight, my uninformed opinion is that they have had enough time to rethink the chassis to find ways to adjust the mix of steel and aluminum that they should be able to offset a potion of any gains. Still, it would not surprise me if a theoretical next-gen car with an even more theoretical 2.4 weighed 3,000 pounds or more.

That is unless the existing chassis just wasn't that well designed, and by re-engineering the body they find 100~200 pounds.


Also, I like the render. It looks like an Elise/ Exige.

I remember reading about the BRZ/86 being on a modified impreza platform (from 2012ish).
That would mean that any savings to be found...would be from a modified Subaru Global Platform and not the TNGA from Toyota (mind = blown!)

And since the impreza moved onto it in 2017, and the WRX is still on the previous platform and not making the move until 2021.....which kind of lines up with the supposed time a second gen BRZ/86 comes out.....

WE'VE BEEN THINKING THIS WRONG THE WHOLE TIME! It wont be a TNGA variant that doesn't exist, it'll be a Subaru Global Platform that needs tweaking!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

I remember reading about the BRZ/86 being on a modified impreza platform (from 2012ish).
That would mean that any savings to be found...would be from a modified Subaru Global Platform and not the TNGA from Toyota (mind = blown!)

And since the impreza moved onto it in 2017, and the WRX is still on the previous platform and not making the move until 2021.....which kind of lines up with the supposed time a second gen BRZ/86 comes out.....

WE'VE BEEN THINKING THIS WRONG THE WHOLE TIME! It wont be a TNGA variant that doesn't exist, it'll be a Subaru Global Platform that needs tweaking!

I am going to go find my argument with that one dude 3 years ago where I said that the Global Platform could be used and he (and many others) told me it was impossible. Apparently I should write for motoring.au. All it takes is to say it on a clickbait and it becomes accurate.
OH SHIT! Maybe I triggered the whole rumour way back then. Am I the "Unidentified" insider?





Oh and they don't have to "modify" the global platform. It is adjustable and variable. The use of the word "platform" messes with people since they picture one basic structure. It is more of an architectural (Toyota's term) concept than an actual physical base. The platform is more like a bunch of Lego blocks that can be assembled however you want than it is a predetermined size and shape that needs to be altered.


Oh OH. The current platform was "based on" the old Impreza one. It was an all new design using the same ideas of the Impreza they didn't just take the existing platform and chop it up until it fit. Again the terminology is confusing.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am going to go find my argument with that one dude 3 years ago where I said that the Global Platform could be used and he (and many others) told me it was impossible. Apparently I should write for motoring.au. All it takes is to say it on a clickbait and it becomes accurate.
OH SHIT! Maybe I triggered the whole rumour way back then. Am I the "Unidentified" insider?





Oh and they don't have to "modify" the global platform. It is adjustable and variable. The use of the word "platform" messes with people since they picture one basic structure. It is more of an architectural (Toyota's term) concept than an actual physical base. The platform is more like a bunch of Lego blocks that can be assembled however you want than it is a predetermined size and shape that needs to be altered.


Oh OH. The current platform was "based on" the old Impreza one. It was an all new design using the same ideas of the Impreza they didn't just take the existing platform and chop it up until it fit. Again the terminology is confusing.

The only hack job platform I know of is in the Lexus RC: Rear third of the platform is from the current gen Lexus IS, middle third of the platform is from the last gen Lexus IS Convertible, Front third of the platform is from the current gen Lexus GS. Compared to just making a 2 door Lexus IS, the hack job makes it stiffer in the middle and wider at the front (probably heavier than it could have been too).

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

< snip >
Also, I like the render. It looks like an Elise/ Exige.

What render are you referring to? I don't see anything in this thread that remotely resembles a mid engine Lotus Elise/Exige.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Stephen W.

What render are you referring to? I don't see anything in this thread that remotely resembles a mid engine Lotus Elise/Exige.

The yellow one looks like a mk2 Elise in the headlights

[yurikaze]

I'm trying to understand why so many people want it to carry the Celica name over 86.

What I picture when I hear Celica:


What I picture when I hear 86: