TOYOTA GAZOO Racing Presents World Debut of the New JDM GR 86 (Second Gen 86)!

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by RetroRacer

I’m completely calm, simply stating facts. It seems to me you are the one who is worked up for no reason.

I know multiple people who were at the press launch here, and have been in the car and felt the improved motor and chassis on the track.

It’s the SAME chassis but with 50% more torsional rigidity and a bump up in HP and Torque with more midrange power, it’s not rocket science to see how it performs better.

The Japanese videos of racers driving both of the new twins on track also stated the same things, and how much improved the new car is.

Again you guys keep bringing up “looks” whereas I was simply talking performance updates.

I’ve only stated accurate facts about the HP, Torque numbers and chassis improvements. Again do your research and you’ll see the racers who have driven the new cars on the track in Japan can most definitely notice an improvement over the previous models.

Keep bashing the new cars if you desire, that’s your choice. But myself and many others are certainly looking forward to them arriving at the end of this year.

We will not be “blown away” by any means of the performance of these cars. But I certainly expect that they most definitely will be better than the cars they replace.

My dad owns Microsoft

[RetroRacer]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

My dad owns Microsoft

The brainwashing makes complete sense then!

In all seriousness though, I feel the new cars will noticeably perform better, even on the same chassis.

Your Civic Type R is a prime example, if you drive a 2019 on track (the year you have) and drive a 2020 Type-R right after, the improvements to the suspension, brakes, etc are IMMEDIATELY apparent. I noticed right away how much they improved the 2020.

That’s how the new twins will be to me I feel, even though the same chassis the improvements made will be noticeable right off the bat.

Many people won’t like the new cars, even if improved. I’m ok with that!

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by Tanstin

The GR86 is objectively a better car and people deserve to be hyped for it.

Originally Posted by RetroRacer

simply stating facts.

But I certainly expect that they most definitely will be better than the cars they replace.

I am definitely hyped for the 2nd gen and will be looking forward to getting one. But that's exactly what I have is hype, and it's what you have, hype. Not facts. Until it's released and been out for a few years, you can't say any "facts" about it being better than 1st gen. Reliability is what Toyota is about. You can't state facts until the story is done. I certainly expect you to be right about 2nd gen, but nothing at this point is fact or objective until it stands the test of time.

[RetroRacer]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

I am definitely hyped for the 2nd gen and will be looking forward to getting one. But that's exactly what I have is hype, and it's what you have, hype. Not facts. Until it's released and been out for a few years, you can't say any "facts" about it being better than 1st gen. Reliability is what Toyota is about. You can't state facts until the story is done. I certainly expect you to be right about 2nd gen, but nothing at this point is fact or objective until it stands the test of time.

I understand where you are coming from completely, but if we’re being honest I don’t feel any Subaru engined vehicle to be the ultimate reliable vehicle. Will be interesting to see if the new changes to the 2.4 motor change that perception.

Toyota’s engines they make themselves however are extremely reliable, no question.

I was stating how the new car has the same chassis, just more rigid with a more Hp motor so Performance will definitely be better.

But you’re absolutely correct that we won’t know how reliable these new cars will be until a few years from now.

It’s always a gamble buying the first year of a new platform that’s for sure. You make a good point.

[Rogue13]

Without seeing it in person I think Gen 1 looks better and the rear end is not so good but they have done enough to it for me to buy a Gen2. Will give my 2019 manual to my son (17) and have a 2x white 86 garage.

Hope the wheels are 18x8's so I can throw on some 225 PS4's/GR springs straight away - something about 215's just don't sit right.... oh and I hope its has more noise insulation. no other complaints really as the weight didn't increase that much which was my main concern. Perfect weekend toy IMO - looking forward to the test drive.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

I am definitely hyped for the 2nd gen and will be looking forward to getting one. But that's exactly what I have is hype, and it's what you have, hype. Not facts. Until it's released and been out for a few years, you can't say any "facts" about it being better than 1st gen. Reliability is what Toyota is about. You can't state facts until the story is done. I certainly expect you to be right about 2nd gen, but nothing at this point is fact or objective until it stands the test of time.

Found tcoats other account

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by RetroRacer

I’m completely calm, simply stating facts. It seems to me you are the one who is worked up for no reason.

Ahh yes, the classic "I'm not mad, you are" response.

[Stonehorsw]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Tires are not really holding this car back as far as 0-60 goes. And we already know what 215/40-18 Michelin PS4 tires do for BRZ acceleration vs. 215/45-17 Primacies:
2017 BRZ: 0-60 in 6.2 seconds and 1/4-mile in 14.8 at 95mph on Primacies.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
2018 BRZ tS: 0-60 in 6.3 seconds and 1/4-mile in 14.9 at 94mph on PS4s
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/


And it ain't the tires... Agree that the +23hp isn't nearly enough to account for 1 second quicker to 60, so if it really *is* 1 second quicker it's gotta be one less shift.

TS version is slightly heavier, has aero and 18” wheels, so not a apples to apples comparison.
If the 0-62mph is reduced by 1 second, I would expect to be from a conjunction of factors: tires (you do not know how much the grip difference would make with a higher torque), gearing, aero (drag reduction), weight distribution, suspension geometry.

[AnalogMan]

I also posted this in another thread so apologies for the double booking. It looks like Nissan is going all-in on the sleaze approach to selling cars:

https://jalopnik.com/nissan-is-going...ers-1846636646

Especially with a hot car like the Z, that will probably be the most sought-after Nissan in years, I can see the salespeople reacting like sharks finding bloody chum in the water. This will be yet another BS game they’ll play, pressuring buyers into financing terms as long as a house mortgage.

As much as I like what I’m seeing with the Z, I think the probability of me buying one just stepped down a notch. Either the second-gen BRZ/86, or just keeping my current car, seems more likely.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Well, I know we are talking about 0-60 versus 0-62 in the above articles and below, but apparently the last gen did 0-60 mph in 6.2 seconds and 60-62 mph in 1.2 seconds for a total of 7.4 seconds.

I don't think the current car takes 1.2 seconds to get from 60mph to 62mph...
6.2 second 0-60 times we see are kinda cheating, they give themselves a 1 foot rollout.

The 7.4 seconds the press release references as 0-62 time, that must be truly from zero without a 1ft rollout, soft launch, or possibly it's an automatic? In that same 7.4-second run to 62mph they reference, I would bet they did not get to 60mph in 6.2...

Kinda odd the Ts had a lower time, right?

tS was 48 lb. heavier, and the data is in pretty coarse units, 6.2 seconds given could be 6.24, and the tS at 6.3 could be 6.25. Likewise for 94 vs. 95mph, could be 94.4 vs. 94.5. Anyway it's clear that the tS doesn't get any acceleration advantage from its PS4 tires, not enough to make up for it's modestly (+1.7%) greater weight anyway...

I have to be a bit skeptical of the Toyota press release claiming that big an improvement 0-62. But if it really *is* 1.1 seconds quicker to 60, a lot of that is likely not having to upshift to 3rd, that's ~0.5(ish) right there. And the rest due to better power/weight and no big torque dip.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by RetroRacer

Wasn’t intended for anyone in particular. Simply speaking my mind. I felt that paying for a Hakone for the same price as a PP Brz wasn’t worth it to me PERSONALLY.

Every post about the new gen I’ve seen of yours you keep commenting “how bad it “looks” and you hate it.

The front fenders you “hate” are completely functional. The side skirts you “hate” are easily changed.

You sound like an ex GF who can’t except the fact that people have moved on.
The new car has a better motor with improved HP and Torque curve, and a 50% more rigid chassis.
You KNOW that this car will be a far better performer than your car, but simply because it doesn’t “look” good to you, you bash it.

Toyota/Subaru both should be applauded that they made this car at all in 2021-22, and especially with improvements in today’s SUV, EV market.

Hakone was only made for ONE year, the fact that you say just as many of them are being tracked/raced over the multiple years these cars were offered is nonsense. These are DRIVERS cars, yes more than 50% of them don’t track them, but they are built for DRIVERS.

My Girlfriend Christine has a 2019 PP BRZ and I absolutely love driving her car, but the new car is most definitely a step up. We get it, you always talk about how the reveal was “unexciting” blah blah. Only to people like you who prefer “looks” over performance.

I’m very proud of the improvements they made on the motor and chassis. There is no doubt this will be a better DRIVERS car.

Funny how you have the word Racecar in your sig, as you never RACE your car.

Again you don’t show any appreciation that a new gen even exists, especially when it’s going to be a much better performing car.
You knock “functional” vents and “looks” while ignoring the MANY improvements.

I love the Hakone green color, always have, I was simply stating for the same price the PP BRZ was more worth the same $ TO ME.

But again, as someone who doesn’t truly “drive” their car, you wouldn’t understand.

I love both generations of the twins immensely, but unlike yourself I truly welcome and appreciate the new car, and don’t knock the “looks” over the far better performance gains , or the fact they are making a 2nd Gen at all.

The fact these cars are coming out at all should be applauded, not knocked.
You may not “race” your car, but for those of us that do, we can appreciate the chassis/ motor improvements.

Did you not claim to attempt to buy a Hakone twice and both were sold to somebody else after your credit check came back?
My objection to your comment wasn't that you think it was a better deal but your wide sweeping statement that anybody buying a Hakone only care about appearance and doesn't drive it as "intended". I ask again what is the "intended" way to drive it? I also maintain that as many Hakone owners will track or performance drive them as much as any PP one.
I put 150,000 miles on my FRS. COVID restrictions mean the Hakone will be far less but it is still driven everyday. If you actually ever buy one instead of just talking about it will you drive it that much?
It is a car, a very nice one, but still just a car and it's intended purpose is to get you from point A to point B. How you chose to drive it in between those points is up to you not the car.
I do think the next gen is ugly as hell and I will continue to say so. I also think that the 10% to 12% increase in performance (depending on who you listen to) is wonderful hype but far from the earth shattering changes some make it out to be. What I have not done nor will not due is try to convince others that my opinion is the truth such as you seem to like to do.

Oh and congratulations in finally getting through a whole post without including a mention of your " 2007 STI Crawford built, and 91 NSX. Sold my 2012 SS/RS sema Camaro"

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

TS version is slightly heavier, has aero and 18” wheels, so not a apples to apples comparison.

Yes, *slightly* heavier, 48 lb., +1.7%, which theoretically should amount to something a bit less than 1mph slower in the 1/4. The argument had been that 215/40-18 PS4s would give a big improvement in acceleration vs. 215/45-17 Primacies, and that's exactly what's compared here. If the new car gets to 62mph 1.1 seconds quicker, it is not because it's on 215/40-18 PS4s vs 215/45-17 Primacies.

If the 0-62mph is reduced by 1 second, I would expect to be from a conjunction of factors: tires (you do not know how much the grip difference would make with a higher torque), gearing, aero (drag reduction), weight distribution, suspension geometry.

I'm saying that if it really *is* 1.1 seconds quicker to 62, the main factors are better power/weight, no torque dip (doesn't affect acceleration times from higher speeds but does for standing start), and ~half of that advantage from being geared taller enough that it doesn't have to upshift to 3rd to hit 62.
Weight distribution is going to be close to the same, other factors are minor...

Anyway, we'll see!

[Lantanafrs2]

^ definitely targeting lower income buyers who will end up paying more but have lower monthly payments. I doubt many people with means will visit a Nissan showroom anyway. I think Nissan knows this as well.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

^ definitely targeting lower income buyers who will end up paying more but have lower monthly payments. I doubt many people with means will visit a Nissan showroom anyway. I think Nissan knows this as well.

In twenty-odd years Nissan's managed to swap places with Hyundai in the manufacturer/dealer food chain. Ghosen should be so proud of his legacy.