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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


View Poll Results: How would you rate the design of the 2nd gen 86? 1 lowest & 5 highest
1 10 3.86%
2 17 6.56%
3 49 18.92%
4 113 43.63%
5 70 27.03%
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Old 04-06-2021, 04:19 AM   #141
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For those who were lost as to what was being said in Japanese in the Lovecars! TV! first drive video (YouTubes auto translate to English is working now), here's an attempt to translate from the YouTube comments section by thefuturedrive:

Here's my attempt to translate some of this into English! Please help someone who speaks Japanese!

3:15 Beautiful 86 drift
8:16 86 has a more excited initial throttle response particularly BRZ has a more linear throttle response
8:35 BRZ has deeper roll in the back?
9:10 BRZ has a very stable cornering feel, no sense of insecurity at all
12:14 86 feels like a sharpened version of the early years zenki 86
14:10 86 has a very excitable feeling
14:43 BRZ has a stable feeling, but within that stability you can feel that it is FR
16:45 BRZ despite being FR has the sense of security of an AWD car
17:37 It has started to rain but the stability and security is still very high
17:55 BRZ seems to have inherited Subaru's AWD philosophy
18:45 When BRZ is made to slide it is very controllable
19:20 BRZ characteristics is not only one of composure, it also accepts drifting
20:30 In 86 you can feel the GR characteristics from the Yaris and Supra
22:15 In the 86 you can sense the flavor of the Yaris and Supra. In contrast, in the BRZ you can sense the flavor of the Impreza and Levorg
22:50 You can really feel the added distinct flavours from each company between the BRZ and 86 with this generation
23:43 You get a grand touring sense from the BRZ
24:15 When you wring it out it is fun as a FR car, but when you're not the Subaru DNA is great
24:40 In 3rd gear, the 86's rear still drifts, but in the BRZ the rear stays planted in 3rd.
24:45 In 2nd gear you can get the BRZ to drift but the rear stability is distinct
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Old 04-06-2021, 05:57 AM   #142
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Toyota Gazoo Racing + Subaru announcement for April 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
So that is probably half of the improvement.

I don't think the 8th and 9th gen Si going from 2.0 to 2.4 did much different.

I want to agree, but magazines were never able to get the TS off the line any quicker than the standard car, in fact car and driver managed quicker in the 2017 limited:

2018 TS:https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/
0-60: 6.3s
1/4: 14.9s 94mph

2017 limited:https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
0-60: 6.2s
1/4: 14.8s 95mph
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Old 04-06-2021, 07:30 AM   #143
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I guess I'll chime in into the opinion that the Toyota looks better. I honestly don't know what was the thought process behind the BRZ's front bumper. I might have to switch if I decide to upgrade down the road. But at the same time, if I upgrade, it may not be another 86/BRZ since the first gen will probably hold more of a sentimental value among enthusiasts.
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Old 04-06-2021, 08:39 AM   #144
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A better time to use for measurement is the 5-60 mph time. Involves zero tire or clutch slip, and is a MUCH better measurement for what you will do in the real world on public roads.

Civic Si's engine isn't good for comparison since the 2.4 had a considerably lower redline than the 2.0 (about 1000 rpm IIRC). That would have resulted in big modifications to the gear ratios of the transmission. Meanwhile the new 2.4 for the 2nd gen actually has a higher redline the the 2.0.
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Old 04-06-2021, 09:23 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Uhhh, the previous gen manual does 0-60 in 6.2 seconds. Maybe slightly slower to 62. The auto was much slower. Odd that Toyota has it so slow.
As @WolfpackS2k said, 5-60 is a more objective measure of acceleration than '0-60'.

Measuring a 0-60 time is fine with an automatic transmission, but there are so many variables with a manual that it becomes almost irrelevant. With a stick, the launch has a huge impact on the 0-60 time, and the reality is that most people are either incapable or unwilling to launch a manual transmission car to maximize acceleration and get the lowest 0-60 time.

Think about how you'd have to launch a car to truly get the best 0-60 time. Back in the 'old days' (when cars had carburetors), Car & Driver used to consistently get the lowest 0-60 times compared with MT, R&T, or any other reviewers. It's because they would launch the car far more aggressively than most sane people ever would. Rev the engine to redline, and then drop the clutch or with a high-torque motor sidestep the left foot off the clutch and pop it. Some speed shifting along the way without lifting off the gas helped as well, and away you go.

That kind of abuse to the driveline would certainly get great 0-60 times, but at the expense of dramatically shortening the life of the clutch, transmission, and other components. Most owners wouldn't treat their cars that way because they wouldn't want to be replacing clutches and transmissions every couple of thousand miles (or even more often).

I think it was C&D that originally came up with the 5-60 acceleration test as a more objective measure of a car's performance. Have the clutch fully engaged and moving at 5 mph, then gas pedal to the floor and accelerate to redline and shift. There are still the variables of how quickly one does the 1-2, and sometimes 2-3 shifts that will significantly impact the ultimate time, but 5-60 overall is a much more objective and realistic measure of a car’s performance without the variable of driver skill.

"0-60" was used for so long it's still ingrained in many of our minds, and used as the metric to compare cars. I've never put much stock in it, given that the times can vary by a second or two (or more) between drivers. I'd be more interested in seeing back-to-back 5-60 comparisons between the new car and old.

Most of all, I could care less about any of the 'numbers'. I just want to take the new car for a nice long drive on different kinds of roads, and see how it feels to me coming out of my current car. That's what will make up my mind whether or not to buy it (or the Nissan Z, or just keep my current car).

Last edited by AnalogMan; 04-06-2021 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 04-06-2021, 09:24 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vh_supra26 View Post
Another drop. I did it on MS Paint so it's not prefect, but you get the idea.


I combined them for easy comparison
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Old 04-06-2021, 09:39 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transport3r View Post
I want to agree, but magazines were never able to get the TS off the line any quicker than the standard car, in fact car and driver managed quicker in the 2017 limited:

2018 TS:https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/
0-60: 6.3s
1/4: 14.9s 94mph

2017 limited:https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/
0-60: 6.2s
1/4: 14.8s 95mph
The Ts has a massive air brake on the trunk...
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Old 04-06-2021, 09:42 AM   #148
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I've generally preferred to buy Subaru over Toyota, simply because the Subaru dealers in my area have been much more straightforward to deal with than the Toyota dealers (who seem like they just can't help themselves and have to play all the usual games that gives car salespeople such a scummy reputation...). That's why I bought a BRZ over an 86, after beating my head against the wall trying to buy a Hakone and couldn't find a Toyota dealer who wasn't dripping with sleaze...

If I buy a second-gen car, I was planning to go straight to Subaru. But to my own personal eyes, the GR86 front end looks better. A lot better. Enough so to possibly make it a deal-maker.

1. The side gills are less prominent/obnoxious on the 86. On the BRZ they're too big and look like asteroid impact craters.

2. The bottom edge is more cohesive on the 86, with the integrated body-colored front spoiler. In the BRZ, the split lines and body-color mixed with black lip look too busy, like it's trying to ape something it isn't.

3. The front license plate location on the 86 is so much better than the BRZ. Having to hang it off the front bumper on the BRZ just looks so wrong, so tacky, so afterthought. Yuck. I thought I could live with it until I saw how clean and normal the plate position on the 86 looks, placed where it should be, in the grille and not tacked onto the edge of the bumper.

4. I personally prefer smaller grille openings to the gaping maw gasping catfish look that seems to be a trendy but so wrong styling fad these days (I'm talking about you Lexus), which would give the nod to the BRZ. But the other design aspects of the 86 outweigh this, and once the front plate is on (required in my state), I think the Toyota would get my money this time.

Assuming I can find a Toyota salesperson within 100 miles that isn't completely full of sleaze.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:01 AM   #149
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Nobody cares about the numbers until its time to argue over them
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:04 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhawkdown View Post
GR Supra is beautiful. I bet they will rise in value once 2025 hits and Toyota stops making them again.


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I wouldn't say beautiful, or any stretch of the word for that matter, but it definitely has a look.

I don't see value ever rising, I do however think it will hold some value, much like an S2000.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:08 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogMan View Post
I've generally preferred to buy Subaru over Toyota, simply because the Subaru dealers in my area have been much more straightforward to deal with than the Toyota dealers (who seem like they just can't help themselves and have to play all the usual games that gives car salespeople such a scummy reputation...). That's why I bought a BRZ over an 86, after beating my head against the wall trying to buy a Hakone and couldn't find a Toyota dealer who wasn't dripping with sleaze...

If I buy a second-gen car, I was planning to go straight to Subaru. But to my own personal eyes, the GR86 front end looks better. A lot better. Enough so to possibly make it a deal-maker.

1. The side gills are less prominent/obnoxious on the 86. On the BRZ they're too big and look like asteroid impact craters.

2. The bottom edge is more cohesive on the 86, with the integrated body-colored front spoiler. In the BRZ, the split lines and body-color mixed with black lip look too busy, like it's trying to ape something it isn't.

3. The front license plate location on the 86 is so much better than the BRZ. Having to hang it off the front bumper on the BRZ just looks so wrong, so tacky, so afterthought. Yuck. I thought I could live with it until I saw how clean and normal the plate position on the 86 looks, placed where it should be, in the grille and not tacked onto the edge of the bumper.

4. I personally prefer smaller grille openings to the gaping maw gasping catfish look that seems to be a trendy but so wrong styling fad these days (I'm talking about you Lexus), which would give the nod to the BRZ. But the other design aspects of the 86 outweigh this, and once the front plate is on (required in my state), I think the Toyota would get my money this time.

Assuming I can find a Toyota salesperson within 100 miles that isn't completely full of sleaze.

I’m kinda in the same boat. I’d consider getting the BRZ and do a bumper swap.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:16 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2 View Post
Nobody cares about the numbers until its time to argue over them
That's all the numbers are for though, to boast and say one is better than the other because of .1 of a second.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:19 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2 View Post
Nobody cares about the numbers until its time to argue over them
That’s exactly the point. Some people like to argue about the ‘numbers’, and seem to get some misplaced sense of self-worth over whether their car is ‘better’ (= faster) than someone else’s. It’s understandable for true track rats where winning or losing can come down to fractions of a second, but usually it’s like high school kids bragging in the cafeteria.

Others don’t waste time in their lives on that kind of nonsense, and just care if a car is fun to drive. For them.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:26 AM   #154
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I do agree aphrodisiacs are sticky
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