CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

I don't have first hand experience with the Teins unfortunately.

I would recommend the Bilstein B6 over the Konis for ride quality.

- Andrew

Not available for the car.

Actually decided on Tein Flex Z. It was only a bit more $ in this application and no assembly required.

[Kordless]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

The 2 and 3 way Clubsports are very different from each other (more than just the extra compression adjustment knob).

The KW 2 way Clubsport is a somewhat conventional twintube with a piston and a foot valve. Really good for what it is, and the 2 way adjustability (rebound and low speed compression) make the damper really flexible so they can both ride and perform well for a variety of different set-ups.

The 3 way KW Clubsport is a bit different...kind of a hybrid twintube and monotube. Instead of the foot valve, there's a piggy back canister with a divider piston and high + low speed compression adjustment. The compression adjusters are really good. More fluid capacity, more gas pressure, more consistent adjustment and performance. And more work to set up correctly with the extra adjustment knob for high speed compression, but more potential to dial them in just right.

The 2 way KW Competition coilovers are available in both twintube and monotube. The 3 ways Competition are all monotube. Either way, these are built to order and more expensive. Fairly serious dampers in comparison to the Clubsports.

All of the above do not come with a warranty. We offer our RCE Tarmac 2 Clubsports and Tarmac 3 Clubsports (2 and 3 ways) with our own custom valving and spring rates AND a warranty. Built by KW to our specs.

For more information on the KW and RCE 3 ways, this thread has some extra detail:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79026

- andrew

Awesome! I would be very interested in the Tarmac 3 but I got a deal on a set of used KW 3 Way Clubsports.

Much appreciated!

[JoeCFRS]

I have a set of the mann engineering AST 4150 coilovers. I'm having trouble finding info on which camber plates will work with these and what i might need. Can anyone provide advice? Thanks.

[Kordless]

Another question.

At what point would one need to get Adjustable Front Endlinks?

Thanks,

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Kordless

Another question.

At what point would one need to get Adjustable Front Endlinks?

Thanks,

You don't want your endlinks to be excessively preloaded, adjustable endlinks will help you get the length right so there is no preload on the swaybar. On some coilovers and/or ride heights that will be required.

- Andrew

[Kordless]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

You don't want your endlinks to be excessively preloaded, adjustable endlinks will help you get the length right so there is no preload on the swaybar. On some coilovers and/or ride heights that will be required.

- Andrew

Do you require them with your RCE T3s/KW Clubsport 3-Way?

If so, do you require them at all ride heights or specific ride height?

I'm trying to figure out exactly what I need to install these.

I already have SPL Rear Lower Control Arms.

Thanks,

[jamal]

You would want adjustable endlinks with any coilover if you want to do a good job at corner balancing. And you really should corner balance coilovers because they create the possibility of having the corner weights way off.

On cars where the front and rear endlinks are nearly the same (like 04-07 sti), you can cheat and just buy one set and split it between the front and rear since you don't really need both endlinks to be adjustable. But on these cars it's useful to have both front endlinks adjustable when changing ride height to make sure nothing is hitting/rubbing.

[Spacemane969]

Originally Posted by churchx

Well, of course i have such experience, as running two camberbolts (SPC 81305 lower hole, Whiteline KCA416 top) front 2/3rds of time i have car .

"I just want it to feel sporty again" makes me suspicious though, as to what you really want and what is sporty feel by your book. It did felt sporty, but not anymore? My guess is that you installed grippier (or wider) tires while still staying at stock NA power, so car feels less lively/hard to loose grip if/when you wanted? Then not sure, if upping neg. camber will net what you may really want, as it will add grip in turns taken fast. I have suspicion that you may have wished ease of power oversteer "like stock", but it's just guesswork from my part. Less grippier tires imho should bring what you seem to want better.

I've thought alot about your feedback after installing the camber bolts. I'm making some drastic swings chasing a feeling that I miss and I hope I'm finally getting close.

I've ordered rear LCAs now in hopes to bring the alignment right back to square one. I adored the handling stock. I finally realized that the "feeling" was the fine balance of oversteer and oversteer. It's so easy to to describe that feeling because it made me smile..and I don't smile anymore.

I'm looking at -1 rear and 0 to -.5 front, with slight toe out front and none to slight toe in rear... basically factory spec. I'm just hoping that my modest lowering and stickier tires weren't enough to disrupt that original feeling on their own regardless of alignment.

[churchx]

Spacemane969: For reference factory alignment front camber 0, toe 0, rear camber -1.2, toe in 0.2.
But overall grip by much grippier tires will still be up, even if you won't up negative camber.
As for "like stock", i don't know if i'd wish to pursue it. Yes, on it & primacies even at stock lack of power it was easy to loose grip with throttle, but i also didn't like it's bias to understeer. That i "cured" by more camber front then rear (opposite to stock). In your case i'd probably try camber -1.5 front, -1 rear, zero toe around, for daily driven only car, no matter what tires.

Being tail happy is one big aspect that I do miss, but I'm willing to compromise for cornering ability. I did go a little stickier, running pilot sport AS3+ in stock size(with 1inch lowering). The biggest thing I'm chasing is just the overall balance though. In stock form weight distribution and braking into a turn were flawless..the car went exactly where I wanted. Now I'll brake into a turn and it's pretty much a guess as to where it's going with understeer and a general lack of control.

I still feel like different tires would change "feel" most, and while indeed less camber may reduce grip in corners, i'd choose more camber neg. camber front. 1) A/S 3 grip better then primacies, but they also have softer sidewalls = more comfort, but less sharp turn-in feel, if that is also something of what you remember & miss, 2) more understeer .. grippier tires just imho made it show through more, but it was there in stock alignment.
Maybe - allseasons for colder weather, proper summer tires with stiff sidewalls for .. well, summer? . And not too wide, to not to grip-tramlining.

[Spacemane969]

Originally Posted by churchx

Spacemane969: For reference factory alignment front camber 0, toe 0, rear camber -1.2, toe in 0.2.
But overall grip by much grippier tires will still be up, even if you won't up negative camber.
As for "like stock", i don't know if i'd wish to pursue it. Yes, on it & primacies even at stock lack of power it was easy to loose grip with throttle, but i also didn't like it's bias to understeer. That i "cured" by more camber front then rear (opposite to stock). In your case i'd probably try camber -1.5 front, -1 rear, zero toe around, for daily driven only car, no matter what tires.
I still feel like different tires would change "feel" most, and while indeed less camber may reduce grip in corners, i'd choose more camber neg. camber front. 1) A/S 3 grip better then primacies, but they also have softer sidewalls = more comfort, but less sharp turn-in feel, if that is also something of what you remember & miss, 2) more understeer .. grippier tires just imho made it show through more, but it was there in stock alignment.
Maybe - allseasons for colder weather, proper summer tires with stiff sidewalls for .. well, summer? . And not too wide, to not to grip-tramlining.

I'm inclined to agree with you on most of that, but I think what I'm getting at is more of a sort of philosophical idea of the car itself rather than digging through numbers and technical tidbits. My problem is that I don't have a clean comparison of the tires and suspension setup..I added Hankook v12s and lighter wheels with my one inch drop.

I don't remember understeer at all when I bought it. It was used and had beautifully broken in primacies that were hard and sharp as a tack in the corners. But, what I also believe to be a huge factor is my inexperience with this type of car.. I believe I was pushing with what the tires gave me in a safe manner, but not necessarily balls to the wall at the limits. Having said that I drive at 10/10s now over the years but it's much more unnerving and much less satisfying.

As for tires I'm pretty much done. This is my 3rd set after stock, including a winter setup, and I just can't justify another set, it's gotten way too expensive for me personally. The only consideration would be finding used primacies and selling the AS3s. But even then there is the cost of mounting and balancing, and seemingly endless alignments for instance trying out your recommended setup and possibly still being unsatisfied.

Thanks for your input, I'm curious to see your take on if I'm being biased based on this being the first car I've driven of its kind. I will say that even through all the ups and downs, it's been life changing owning this car and learning about the driving Dynamics and characteristics that are brought to life.

[malubawla]

I'm running a turbo brz around 408whp. Suspension setup is tein flex coilovers, 17x9 rpf1 et 45, 255/40/17 indyhawk 500, spc rear lca, rear toe arms, whiteline bushings subframe and differential. I have my setup at -2.0 front and -1.0 rear camber, trying to gain as much contact in the rear. Would it would be better to add more negative or positive camber for either the front or rear? Thanks

[churchx]

malubawla: if you are ok with front grip, i'd up rear camber slightly, eg. to -1.5, but instead rather get extra grip/stability in rear under throttle more with slight toe-in, if it's currently zero. Also maybe turn rear coilovers a bit softer.
Remember, that negative camber adds more grip in turns/curves, when it compensates tire sidewall flex due side-Gs/mass transfer to get as result even contact patch. In straight line more camber won't bring more grip, rather opposite, as you are making contact patch less even/optimal w/o that sidewall flex of when turning to compensate.
You can also consider moving up to grippier compound tires, if you find current grip lacking.

[bdtbdtbdt]

Thanks RCE! I installed a set of Tarmac 2's this winter. WOW! I came from stock dampers. I went from 35th pax last year to 9th pax ,same autox club.
THANK YOU ... LOVE THEM. Thanks to the forum for all the install help. They feel great!

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by malubawla

I'm running a turbo brz around 408whp. Suspension setup is tein flex coilovers, 17x9 rpf1 et 45, 255/40/17 indyhawk 500, spc rear lca, rear toe arms, whiteline bushings subframe and differential. I have my setup at -2.0 front and -1.0 rear camber, trying to gain as much contact in the rear. Would it would be better to add more negative or positive camber for either the front or rear? Thanks

A little bit more rear camber would be good for grip out of corners, as would reducing rear damping (as long as the spring is still properly damped).

- Andrew