Toyota Dynamic Force Engine

[PulsarBeeerz]

I just feel we are in for a disappointing 220bhp 2.4l direct injection only 6500rpm wheeze fest with the new car.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

I just feel we are in for a disappointing 220bhp 2.4l direct injection only 6500rpm wheeze fest with the new car.

Well it is hypothetical, but if they could apply all these changes in the current 2.0lt engine I believe that they could get the 220ps number even without increasing the displacement.

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Well it is hypothetical, but if they could apply all these changes in the current 2.0lt engine I believe that they could get the 220ps number even without increasing the displacement.

If it's anything like Vortec motors, they don't particularly work well in the upper RPM range. There's a reason they were offered in big trucks and not any performance cars.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Goingnowherefast

That's just demonstrably not true... There is almost no other vehicle on the US market that suffers from a "dip" in the torque curve as significant as this platform does. We need to stop making excuses for poor engine design and calibration.

For reference, here's another 2.0L engine in a 2 door sportscar (ND Miata) that directly competes with the BRZ and is price competitive...

I'm guessing you are just totally blind. Big torque dip between 2.5k and 3k. Keep attacking the one inexpensive sports car with a roof we get, and it'll be gone too. And the rest of the "curve" isn't remotely flat. That drop off after 5k for instance.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by why?

I'm guessing you are just totally blind. Big torque dip between 2.5k and 3k. Keep attacking the one inexpensive sports car with a roof we get, and it'll be gone too. And the rest of the "curve" isn't remotely flat. That drop off after 5k for instance.

This.

How are people still whining about the torque dip after 8 years? If you’re in the torque dip while driving fast you’re doing it wrong! Stop whining and learn how to downshift to the proper gear.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by why?

I'm guessing you are just totally blind. Big torque dip between 2.5k and 3k. Keep attacking the one inexpensive sports car with a roof we get, and it'll be gone too. And the rest of the "curve" isn't remotely flat. That drop off after 5k for instance.

5lb ft is big? lol

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

This.

How are people still whining about the torque dip after 8 years? If you’re in the torque dip while driving fast you’re doing it wrong! Stop whining and learn how to downshift to the proper gear.

People will whine. People will make excuses. I see both.

Is there a pretty noticeable torque dip right in the meat of the rev range? Yep. Is it such a big deal that it makes the entire car a giant paperweight? Nope.

You can easily drive around it, and you can tune it out with the right parts. But it's definitely a negative aspect to the car in stock form.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

5lb ft is big? lol



People will whine. People will make excuses. I see both.

Is there a pretty noticeable torque dip right in the meat of the rev range? Yep. Is it such a big deal that it makes the entire car a giant paperweight? Nope.

You can easily drive around it, and you can tune it out with the right parts. But it's definitely a negative aspect to the car in stock form.

I’ll take our torque dip over that 20lbf drop from 5.5k to redline on the Miata. Our torque curve is flat from 5 to 7k

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I’ll take our torque dip over that 20lbf drop from 5.5k to redline on the Miata.

A little off-topic, but this is exactly what the ND2 (2019) refresh addressed - the low end is about identical to the old engine, the high-end is much better. Torque stays flat to around 6500 RPM. I still prefer the FA20, though (I'm weird, I know).

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I’ll take our torque dip over that 20lbf drop from 5.5k to redline on the Miata. Our torque curve is flat from 5 to 7k

ND2 is better, but ok.

That's fine. Our torque dip and power output is still enough for you to try UEL headers and E85 on your own car. Clearly the car leaves a bit to be desired in stock form.

Doesn't make the car bad. It's pretty universally agreed upon though that the loss or minimizing of that dip would be a wlecome update for the car. I don't think that's an unreasonable critique.

The people who are still complaining about not having 300hp/turbo versions are the real ones that deserve some scrutiny, as they'll clearly never be happy until the car morphs itself into a Nissan Z or a Gensis Coupe.


EDIT:

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

A little off-topic, but this is exactly what the ND2 (2019) refresh addressed - the low end is about identical to the old engine, the high-end is much better. Torque stays flat to around 6500 RPM. I still prefer the FA20, though (I'm weird, I know).

Lol just said this as you posted it. The ND2 is definitely an improvement. There's a noticeable difference in the power delivery between the ND2 and the 17+ cars driving back to back. Obviously the gearing and and lighter weight helps, but the ND2 engine feels quite a bit more eager in the upper half of the revvs. Honestly, I'd still rather have a high strung inline 4 over the boxer we were given. Luckily, Subaru & Toyota made some good changes for the 17+ cars and they feel much better than the 13-16 cars.

[Tanstin]

I too have to admit that the ND2 is objectively a better car stock. It's lighter, the handling feel is excellent and the engine pulls properly as it should from the factory.

That being said, I'll still take the 86 anyday. The two main reasons being the better chassis and it's better daily-driveability.

The reason you always see miata dudes screwing around with sway bars, rails and chassis braces is largely in part due to the design of their car. Unlike the twins, it has an open roof and the taller I4 engine which translates to more body flex and roll around corners. I acknowledge that the FA20 is motor isn't very good. I'm grateful that we have headers that can remove the dip, but its powerband from the factory is immensely underwhelming and requires you to beat the hell out of it to get up to speed. Yet that same low COG flat-4 is why it handles so damn well, and why putting in an I4 wouldn't be a good solution.



If they can get the engine right this time around. The 86 platform will far and away be superior to the miata

[nikitopo]

There isn't anything wrong with the current engine. If people say that they need to beat the hell out of it to get up to speed, it is because of its small displacement and because it is NA. Check any review of a previous generation Boxster or Cayman and people are saying the same. The engine comes alive after 5k RPM.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

There isn't anything wrong with the current engine. If people say that they need to beat the hell out of it to get up to speed, it is because of its small displacement and because it is NA. Check any review of a previous generation Boxster or Cayman and people are saying the same. The engine comes alive after 5k RPM.

Lol k

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Lol k

[Irace86.2.0]

Torque dips. They aren’t just a boxer thing. Hondas had huge torque dips before VTEC KICKS IN!!!

Found these on a BEAMS MR2 thread here (high strung 2.0L I4):

http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/77...registry/page6