Here we go again! MR2 real this time?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

I appreciate your response and respect your point of view. I have a different view of climate change and the religion being formed around it though.

What's your opinion on the future of oil production? Even if you disagree adamantly about climate change, you should still be concerned with oil production. Just to be clear, we will never run out of oil, but production will become an ever bigger problem. Even with all the creative ways we have used to extract oil, there is a finite (extractable) supply. What is worse, oil demand will exceed oil production, yet even with ballooning prices, eventually the cost to extract the oil will make further extraction unprofitable, but most likely the product will just become unaffordable.

Personally, I think it is stupid to continue to waste oil when so many industries depend on oil. While there are many alternatives to oil, volatile oil prices cause massive economic instability that affect prices on so many products from food to medical supplies to sanitation, to name a small fraction. Even if you don't believe the peak production forecasts, we aren't talking about a problem that is hundreds or thousands of years away (1).

I get the pejorative of referring to climate change as a religion, yet I find it to be a false equivalency. The evidence for anthropomorphic climate change is robust. It would be more accurate to suggest that there is a religion being formed around climate change denial like a more popular flat earther movement. As The Architect said in The Matrix Reloaded, "Denial is the most predictable of all human responses."

[MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

woke dog whistling

lmao

[wbradley]

That MR2 picture, the topic of this thread, looks like it might be a Kei car like that cool Honda one, which we will never see outside Japan.

Regards to the gas/electric argument, I think people's minds would change if electric became more economically viable for them.. They are a better option overall now that they perform as well as or better than gas alternatives. And I agree with iRace, hydrocarbon fuel isn't a guaranteed commodity forever, the fruit will get harder and harder to reach all the while when we can simply look to alternative sources. It's just down to numbers.

I have considered selling my STI and buying a Polestar 2. With the performance package and possibly another package the difference in money would be around $40K after tax etc.

I literally have been going through 2 tanks per month which is no more than $180.00

So, to get an electric decent performing car (with Ohlins) which I still wont be able to drive quicker than my STI will end up costing me a net difference after fuel savings of approx $650/month for 5 years or more. Is it worth it? Plus Ill need to buy another set of snow wheels and tires. Too bad my $5K dental implant I paid for last year would have been a nice down payment.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I think the answer to your question is provided in the quote, and I linked the source.

Actually, I don't think it is but that's OK.

We're talking net profit here. That means after all expenses, and including all revenue sources, so it's not "more per car". Also, Toyota could be sinking massive amounts of their cash flow into research, paying off debt, whatever and it wouldn't show in their net income (nor would it for Tesla).

Is Tesla making more money than Toyota, well they are keeping more per "per car". I just think on the surface its too simplistic a measurement.

[WolfpackS2k]

Oil production isn't going any where, any time soon. It's used for basically everything that society has built itself around over the last 120 years. Steel production, ammonia production (for agriculture), cement production and plastics. Even if removed as a direct power source for transportation and electrical generation humanity is heavily reliant on it's use for at least another 50 years (and that's just my guess for the "western" world and not countries that are decades behind us).

But the matters (and discussions) of humanity's effects on the environment and sustainability aren't really fodder for this thread so I'll stop going down that tangent.

Let's just hope an MR2 is in the future, somehow somewhere

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Actually, I don't think it is but that's OK.

We're talking net profit here. That means after all expenses, and including all revenue sources, so it's not "more per car". Also, Toyota could be sinking massive amounts of their cash flow into research, paying off debt, whatever and it wouldn't show in their net income (nor would it for Tesla).

Is Tesla making more money than Toyota, well they are keeping more per "per car". I just think on the surface its too simplistic a measurement.

It was intentionally simplistic, but it is true that the whole industry, and not just Japan, is taking notice. As it relates to the MR2, if they made the car, I don't know if the car will be a BEV, ICE vehicle, PHEV or HEV, but I could imagine them producing an EV variant to spearhead the future of sports cars in the company.

Tesla is operating at the highest profit margins in the industry, its own shareholder meeting charts revealed, at close to 15%, followed by BMW and Mercedes...

Thus, if Tesla wants to keep its profit margins, which Ford's CEO said are the envy of the car industry... (1)

[Sasquachulator]

Didn't know where to post this but OH SHIT its happening (sort of):

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...ts-car-testing

OK so its not an MR2 and it might not make it to market, but there exists some kind of EV GR sports car prototype in the testing phases. Toyoda wants it to feel like an ICE GR sports car product in everyway so basically he wants the ONLY thing that differentiates it from an ICE is the EV powerplant. So there will be fake noise, there will be a fake manual gearbox, and everything that would make a GR sports car, a GR sports car.

I know there are some whos gonna dismiss this project as WTF why? Everyone in the EV world seems to want the EV to do everything for them (which continues to dull the driving experience more and more), while a driver will want to to everything themselves.

An EV takes away everything that makes the driving experience...an experience. The only things it has are handling (if its set up for it...but that applies to EVERY car so that isnt an EV thing) and instant power (which after the novelty wears off just isnt all that interesting)

[soundman98]

i wish they'd just offer an electric car with a real clutch and transmission. forget all the sound stuff. it'd be a riot to artificially limit the motor to 10,000 rpm and then need to row through the gears.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by soundman98

i wish they'd just offer an electric car with a real clutch and transmission. forget all the sound stuff. it'd be a riot to artificially limit the motor to 10,000 rpm and then need to row through the gears.

Seems like the sound of the motors could be fine as is. I think if they made something with limits or limited by design and did three speeds, it probably wouldn't feel much different than rarely shifting in a Cayman. Maybe they could make it matter like combining first and second into one gear, third and fourth into a gear and fifth and sixth into a gear, with a lower top speed so second and third gears require more engagement

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=502

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by soundman98

i wish they'd just offer an electric car with a real clutch and transmission. forget all the sound stuff. it'd be a riot to artificially limit the motor to 10,000 rpm and then need to row through the gears.

I agree 100%. Jeep has it's Wrangler Magneto concept which is exactly as you describe.

https://www.engadget.com/jeeps-all-e...122031458.html

Car manufacturers should listen to their customers WANTS, in addition to their NEEDS. Save the stick!

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Didn't know where to post this but OH SHIT its happening (sort of):

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...ts-car-testing

OK so its not an MR2 and it might not make it to market, but there exists some kind of EV GR sports car prototype in the testing phases. Toyoda wants it to feel like an ICE GR sports car product in everyway so basically he wants the ONLY thing that differentiates it from an ICE is the EV powerplant. So there will be fake noise, there will be a fake manual gearbox, and everything that would make a GR sports car, a GR sports car.

I know there are some whos gonna dismiss this project as WTF why? Everyone in the EV world seems to want the EV to do everything for them (which continues to dull the driving experience more and more), while a driver will want to to everything themselves.

An EV takes away everything that makes the driving experience...an experience. The only things it has are handling (if its set up for it...but that applies to EVERY car so that isnt an EV thing) and instant power (which after the novelty wears off just isnt all that interesting)

I like the idea of punishing a bad driver using a simulated stall.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

Car manufacturers should listen to their customers WANTS, in addition to their NEEDS. Save the stick!

Ugm, they do, which is why the MT is all but dead.

Frankly I don't see the point of making the car more mechanically complicated for no specific reason. I love a MT and there are advantages to a MT in ICE, but there are none in an EV. At least none that can't be overcome otherwise.

Gearing on an EV really only helps in increasing the top end speed.

Besides the "because it's an MT, yo" argument, what are the true mechanical advantages?

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Ugm, they do, which is why the MT is all but dead.

Frankly I don't see the point of making the car more mechanically complicated for no specific reason. I love a MT and there are advantages to a MT in ICE, but there are none in an EV. At least none that can't be overcome otherwise.

Gearing on an EV really only helps in increasing the top end speed.

Besides the "because it's an MT, yo" argument, what are the true mechanical advantages?

Does it need to have a mechanical advantage? Perhaps all it needs to be is "its an MT yo" since nowadays damn near everything's more efficient than an MT.

CVT's got fake gearing so it felt more "normal" and it benefits no one because of it (or from what i heard the "fake" gears actually detract performance and fuel efficiency).

MT's in the past had purpose, like better Fuel economy than automatics and you were able to extract max power from an engines powerband. It has no benefits nowadays as autos are much better at those now.

EV's are pretty much "press gas to go" and they're super efficient at it. So basically the purpose of an MT in this era would really just be "its an MT yo!"
And perhaps that's all its needed to be, and in this case the entire MT experience is what Toyoda wants rather than just be a video game.

[bcj]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

I like the idea of punishing a bad driver using a simulated stall.

Electrified driver seat