Harrop TVS86 Owners Thread

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by robv666

Does anyone know if the Grams 72mm throttle body will fit the Harrop SC?

I don't know. I haven't seen it used, but I would imagine there would be clearance issues with the 95mm pulley. I don't know about the AC side.

Harrop has a custom setup on their car. I don't know if this is done to clear a larger TB and/or to run a 8 tooth belt instead of the 6 tooth belt the kit comes with and/or to run a larger crank pulley to get more boost. It is hard to tell.

[Bodalenko]

Just want to here what the driving experience with the DW700”s V ID1050’s is. Might be hard to find someone who has actually had both in their cars. The drivability at DD speeds and conditions v performance gains I guess or basically does your car run better since/if you’ve changed the 700cc to 1050 injectors and nothing else apart from an obvious retune to suit. What are and where are the positives or negatives from the change?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

Just want to here what the driving experience with the DW700”s V ID1050’s is. Might be hard to find someone who has actually had both in their cars. The drivability at DD speeds and conditions v performance gains I guess or basically does your car run better since/if you’ve changed the 700cc to 1050 injectors and nothing else apart from an obvious retune to suit. What are and where are the positives or negatives from the change?

I've had both, but not on a Harrop powered car.

Typically you get better atomization and short pulse width control. Real world: more power, more mpg, smoother throttle response/control under low load (street driving) scenarios.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

Just want to here what the driving experience with the DW700”s V ID1050’s is. Might be hard to find someone who has actually had both in their cars. The drivability at DD speeds and conditions v performance gains I guess or basically does your car run better since/if you’ve changed the 700cc to 1050 injectors and nothing else apart from an obvious retune to suit. What are and where are the positives or negatives from the change?

I don't have experience with this, but I would imagine it would depend on the tuner as well. For instance, DW700s could be worse at low load like Mike said, but if the tuner doesn't use them that much at low load compared to a different tuner then I would imagine changing to ID1050s wouldn't make much of a difference. Similarly, if a tuner is competent at tuning one over the other then you may find switching to the ID1050s does nothing, or things could be worse. I suggest talking to your tuner after getting some opinions.

We know objectively that some people will overstate the benefit of modz. It can be a conscious thing, or it can be a subconscious placebo effect. There is a desire to rationalize modz and expenses. If you settle on the IDs then dyno with the DW700s and then dyno with some ID1050s, and post the results. Do a road trip before and after, and post the mpg before and after. I'm curious if the theory pans out to anything objectively meaningful.

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I've had both, but not on a Harrop powered car.

Typically you get better atomization and short pulse width control. Real world: more power, more mpg, smoother throttle response/control under low load (street driving) scenarios.

Sorry was that using the DW700cc or the ID1050?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Bodalenko

Sorry was that using the DW700cc or the ID1050?

1050 compared to the 700

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I don't have experience with this, but I would imagine it would depend on the tuner as well. For instance, DW700s could be worse at low load like Mike said, but if the tuner doesn't use them that much at low load compared to a different tuner then I would imagine changing to ID1050s wouldn't make much of a difference. Similarly, if a tuner is competent at tuning one over the other then you may find switching to the ID1050s does nothing, or things could be worse. I suggest talking to your tuner after getting some opinions.

We know objectively that some people will overstate the benefit of modz. It can be a conscious thing, or it can be a subconscious placebo effect. There is a desire to rationalize modz and expenses. If you settle on the IDs then dyno with the DW700s and then dyno with some ID1050s, and post the results. Do a road trip before and after, and post the mpg before and after. I'm curious if the theory pans out to anything objectively meaningful.

The tuner has nothing to do with how the driver chooses to drive their car. At some point, those port injectors will have to fire a very short pulse.

[Bodalenko]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

If you settle on the IDs then dyno with the DW700s and then dyno with some ID1050s, and post the results. Do a road trip before and after, and post the mpg before and after. I'm curious if the theory pans out to anything objectively meaningful.

Have dyno results with the DW700’s, FlexFuel, and 85mm pulley so would be very interesting to have a set of each to compare and decide on the day but they are a very busy company and mucking around and changing things around takes time which equals money. Just waiting on logistics and time line to have the 80mm pulley installed by Harrop themselves here in Melb.

They’ve obviously, or at least you’d hope they have, tried both sizes and are confident the DW are up to the job.

My post was just to see if anyone had some first hand, real world experience with both in a Harrop setup. Mike seems to have come the closest so far..

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The tuner has nothing to do with how the driver chooses to drive their car. At some point, those port injectors will have to fire a very short pulse.

I suppose, but the ports could be off or mixed with the direct injectors in a way where, when they are at short pulses, they are contributing just a fraction of the total fuel quantity.

It is also worth noting that if the port injectors in each setup were tuned for the same quantity then the IDs will need to have a shorter pulse width than the DWs, so they would need more control at short pulse widths in order to match the DWs, yet you say they do this and more, surpassing the DWs. Impressive, yet still unclear if there is any real world difference. Wish we had some data beyond bench tests.

[Kiske]

Looking into alternative engines for my build now. I'm about sick of working with IAG. It's been almost a year and no updates. I've gotten word about D-Sport offering a 2.25l built Mahle/Manley/LA Sleeved FA20 package. They cracked 500whp with the HKS supercharger. Might be an option. I'm not going another year without the car.
-
-







@kg17

The Grams 72mm throttle body will not fit. While it will work with the intake it had some extra material along the top (top referencing the top of the TB when the unit is installed to a OEM intake manifold equipped car.) When the TB is installed onto the s/c it need to be clocked 90 degrees counterclockwise and that extra material will contact the blower's snout. I'm not sure if you can machine down the throttle body to get it to clear. You might be better off looking into BLOX's offering which are 68mm and 70mm ported throttle bodies with only the billet housing being replaced.

Grams 72mm vs OEM (note the extra material on the right hand side)


Blox 70mm

[Irace86.2.0]

It would be nice if the FA24F shortblock was a bolt up affair, but it isn't. Have you considered sourcing a FA24D block from Toyobaru then getting it built. FA24F pistons with FA20D aftermarket rods should work. That is what I would consider if I do a build after nursing school, but I'll likely put off anything until much later unless something blows.

If someone was dead set on getting the Grams TB in then they could probably do a spacer. What do you think?

[Kiske]

The curtent ascent block would need a belhousing adapter for the trans and the starter which mirror the fa20dit block's mounting locations. I'm not sure if Subaru's direct injection is interchangable with the d4s parts either.


Worse case I still have hks 2.1 low comp parts on the shelf too...


The grams tb includes spacers. Some shops show 2 different (in thicknesses) plastic looking spacers included with it. You would have to extend past the pulley which might then mess with your sensors be it iac or maf.

[Irace86.2.0]

That’s why I would just use a FA24D block, but at 13.5:1, I think I would do a low compression build and use the FA24F lower compression pistons with some forged aftermarket rods for the FA20/24D.

Why would the sensors be affected?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Kiske

They cracked 500whp with the HKS supercharger.

Did they actually crack it or speculated? Last I heard, they'd only done it with a Vortech, and only on the dyno, with the car not expected to survive any real world driving.