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View Poll Results: How many 86 owners are planning on getting the Supra?
I'm definitely getting one 32 12.17%
I might get one if they offer a MT 100 38.02%
No, not me. 131 49.81%
Voters: 263. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-06-2019, 09:01 PM   #631
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
The base Torqueflite was the very definition of a slushbox but the heavy duty ones with some modifications were beasts. If it could handle 600 lb-ft of torque back then the new trannys out now should be just fine.
Thanks for not being a snowflake.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:06 PM   #632
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Thanks for not being a snowflake.
Saying I am not a snowflake offends me!
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:07 AM   #633
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Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
I'm confused, are you saying you can't do that? I do that with my AT all the time, even when not driving in manual. I've even done a triple a couple of times.
Yes, I also do double down shifts regularly.

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You are doing that with your foot to accelerate. I mean by action of the left hand for engine braking.
Engine brake also works when you down shift manually.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:36 AM   #634
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You are doing that with your foot to accelerate. I mean by action of the left hand for engine braking.
I still don't know what you are getting at, guess I'm being dense. Just like downshifting with a manual AT, if I want to accelerate quickly I'll double tap the paddle while at the same time coordinating pedal input. It is a different response than just stomping on the gas.

And as @mrg666 it can also be used for engine braking.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:51 AM   #635
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Yes I know you can downshift with the paddle and engine brake I played Sega F355 Challenge probably long before you guys even own cars with paddle shifters lmao!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuC_dRpuF1I[/ame]


Nevermind.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:52 AM   #636
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Originally Posted by tennisfreak View Post
I think you are jumping to conclusions.

The Supra will have the same engine and transmission as the car I am driving right now.

Even before I tuned my car it never felt like it needed more power and (I hate admitting this, first sporty car I've ever owned without a manual) the transmission is amazing does its job better than I ever did myself with a stick.

The Supra is going to way 200+lbs less than my car, have a better weight distribution, and better suspension setup.

Saying its under powered before driving it is jumping to conclusions.
I don't believe I actually said it was underpowered, as a car at least. Compared to it's competition for similar money however, yes, I do. Drop it's base price $5000 or bump it up to 382 hp - then I would agree it's properly priced.

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You cannot compare a 4-speed old transmission with ZF 8HP. We are talking about one of the most advanced transmissions available today. For example, Hellcat and Demon also use this transmission among many others. Can you please read the following articles ... with an open mind?

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...f-eight-speed/

https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...peed-15855273/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission
That doesn't sway me. If it's an automatic with a torque converter, to me that = slushbox. I've driven plenty of automatics! My brief VW ownership recently, was equipped with a DSG (and that's 75% of the reason I sold it after 6 months). Rental SUV I had in Canada a few weeks ago was a V8 Durango with an 8sp auto. My parents Volvo XC60 is an 8sp auto.
I've driven PDK equipped Caymans Macans and Panameras. I've driven my best friend's C63 AMG which has a 7sp auto with a wet clutch pack in place of torque converter.

All less fun than a manual transmission. Would I ever buy a sports car with an auto? If it has a big honking AMG V8 engine, maybe Otherwise, probably not.

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Originally Posted by mrg666 View Post
So you work for ZF? Exciting!
Everybody is of course free to like what they want. But, I am an engineer, and it irritates when such an advanced mechanical design is called just a "slushbox". Demon and Redeye are only available with these transmissions with 800 HP. They make 0-60 in 2.5 sec and some people here claim these transmissions slip! Yeah right

The only slipping transmission I know is mt of boosted 86.
I have no issue admitting that an AT is superior for almost (or all?) forms of motorsports competition for being fastest. Though I would prefer all autos being outlawed from professional motorsports in order to highlight human ability.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:17 AM   #637
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Yes I know you can downshift with the paddle and engine brake I played Sega F355 Challenge probably long before you guys even own cars with paddle shifters lmao! ….Nevermind.
No minding, just wasn't clear on what you are trying to say. Your point was apparently lost on me, and that's OK, as I'm sure mine is lost on you.
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:06 AM   #638
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
I don't believe I actually said it was underpowered, as a car at least. Compared to it's competition for similar money however, yes, I do. Drop it's base price $5000 or bump it up to 382 hp - then I would agree it's properly priced.





All less fun than a manual transmission.



I have no issue admitting that an AT is superior for almost (or all?) forms of motorsports competition for being fastest. Though I would prefer all autos being outlawed from professional motorsports in order to highlight human ability.
Cars should be priced per HP?


"Fun" and effectiveness are not the same thing. The comments here were that the ATs are very competent.


Yes because shifting gears separates the good drivers from the bad since that is all that is involved in driving.
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:08 AM   #639
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Thanks for putting words in my mouth with your last comment. Perhaps to be more clear I should have said "in order to FURTHER highlight human ability".

As to fun to drive and "more than power numbers". I agree, but what exactly is the draw here? For some AT only = less fun. And as that's the growing trend, that's one additional thing to NOT separate it from the pack. Something else to differential it from the pack would be a light weight. Ooops, doesn't have that either. Rebadged BMW interior isn't really a reason either. Nor a me-too BMW engine. I'm not saying you're wrong (and sure it's too early to pass final judgement) but what's sticking out as compelling to you?
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:27 AM   #640
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Thanks for putting words in my mouth with your last comment. Perhaps to be more clear I should have said "in order to FURTHER highlight human ability".

As to fun to drive and "more than power numbers". I agree, but what exactly is the draw here? For some AT only = less fun. And as that's the growing trend, that's one additional thing to NOT separate it from the pack. Something else to differential it from the pack would be a light weight. Ooops, doesn't have that either. Rebadged BMW interior isn't really a reason either. Nor a me-too BMW engine. I'm not saying you're wrong (and sure it's too early to pass final judgement) but what's sticking out as compelling to you?
OK if you want to "further highlight human abilities" in motorsports then lets do away with all computer controlled engines systems or anything else that helps a driver. Manual spark advance and air/fuel mix controls, no advanced suspensions, or anything later than rack and pinion steering should about do the trick. Now THAT would highlight human abilities.


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Old 02-07-2019, 11:14 AM   #641
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
I don't believe I actually said it was underpowered, as a car at least. Compared to it's competition for similar money however, yes, I do. Drop it's base price $5000 or bump it up to 382 hp - then I would agree it's properly priced.
The Supra's direct (and target) competition (at least stated by Toyota) is the Porsche Cayman.

Comparing it to that a Porsche 718 Cayman with a 2.0 turbocharged 4 banger making only 300hp with a PDK STARTS at $61360

A 718 S with a 2.5 turbocharged 4 banger making 350hp with a PDK STARTS at $73760

The Supras 0-60, 1/4 mile, and lap times are all => the Cayman S.

Supra is $50k

So tell me again how the Supra is overpriced and under powered compared to its competition.

Yes, I know Mustangs and Camaros are cheaper with more power.
They are in NO WAY direct competitors.

Yes there is the Corvette and its a magnificent car. I owned a brand new 2015 Z51.
The Corvette is a bargain but its also American and has its own host of issues. (I know I owned one)

Audi TT RS? Not really a competitor but if you did compare it starts at $65k.

Heck my tuned m240i is as fast acceleration wise as my Corvette was. I've smoked more than a few Mustangs in my car.
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:18 AM   #642
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No minding, just wasn't clear on what you are trying to say. Your point was apparently lost on me, and that's OK, as I'm sure mine is lost on you.
Okay I'll try again. This was my idea but probably bad ergonomics in terms of real life for cars.

You see that Sega F355 Challenge paddle shifters how it clicks with every action. Now what if I want to downshift two gears successively instead of hitting the paddle twice, I can just pull it towards me more with 2 clicks.

It's like my old Shimano XTR Rapid Fire shifters for my mountain bike. The downshift paddle allows one to four clicks (one to four gear changes in one shot) depending on the action of my thumb. I know I know that's a bike not a car.

BTW I'm not sure if BMW has since fixed this, but I remember on the E92 the paddle shifters block some of the view of the dash.
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:18 AM   #643
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LOL, sorry man but no Toyota model is on the same footing as a Porsche. If they want to compare "similarly" with Porsche as a competitor, then they need to offer more, way more.

And if you compare PDK times against the Supra...Supra loses. Base or S model, doesn't matter.

All I'll concede there is 6 cylinders >>>>> 4. I'd never buy a 718. But I'd jump all over a preowned 981 GTS.
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:20 AM   #644
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
OK if you want to "further highlight human abilities" in motorsports then lets do away with all computer controlled engines systems or anything else that helps a driver. Manual spark advance and air/fuel mix controls, no advanced suspensions, or anything later than rack and pinion steering should about do the trick. Now THAT would highlight human abilities.





You are describing an ATV, like my kick start carbureted TRX450R. It literally has ZERO Tech; not even a battery! And already has a solid rear axel for drifting!
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