follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-30-2020, 03:53 PM   #29
86MLR
Senior Member
 
86MLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Drives: 2002 VX Commodore SS LS1 Auto
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,203
Thanks: 500
Thanked 2,185 Times in 1,111 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I'm thinking of using swizzle sticks for my power steering cooler.....

I cannot see a downside

Wait......what........
__________________
Disclaimer: This post represents the official views of the voices in my head at the time of posting.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133311
I'm only here for the biscuits
86MLR is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 86MLR For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (12-30-2020), Ultramaroon (12-30-2020)
Old 12-30-2020, 04:58 PM   #30
pallen
Senior Member
 
pallen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Drives: 2017 Toyota 86
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 261
Thanks: 200
Thanked 184 Times in 110 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDan View Post
I remember this vid. Where he says "we've established the fact that you need an oil cooler" without presenting any evidence whatsoever that we do...
To be fair, he does specify for track use and especially FI. I did laugh when he said you have to have an oil cooler, then spent several minutes complaining about how it's hard to get the oil up to temp.
pallen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2020, 05:00 PM   #31
norcalpb
Senior Member
 
norcalpb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: 2013 BRZ, 2023 Model 3
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,297
Thanks: 1,219
Thanked 863 Times in 570 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDan View Post
I remember this vid. Where he says "we've established the fact that you need an oil cooler" without presenting any evidence whatsoever that we do...
I agree in general, but OP stated he will be going FI so I think it's important he at least hears from the dude who had one of the first ever FI kits for our cars/his experience with oil coolers.

I believe in the case of track + FI, an oil cooler is for sure needed.
norcalpb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2020, 05:04 PM   #32
norcalpb
Senior Member
 
norcalpb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: 2013 BRZ, 2023 Model 3
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,297
Thanks: 1,219
Thanked 863 Times in 570 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjan00dles View Post
Is it possible the 19 row cooler would be too large and prevent my engine oil from reaching optimum temps on the street? Im assuming not because the sandwich plate is thermostatic, but wanted to reach out for better informed opinions.
FWIW in my experience here in the same bay area weather (with the 13 row cooler) I run 170F on the highway without a block off plate, and 200F with one.

I monitor it with my P3 gauge via OBD2 so as mentioned it is actually like 220 (maybe).
norcalpb is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to norcalpb For This Useful Post:
ninjan00dles (12-31-2020)
Old 12-31-2020, 02:55 AM   #33
ninjan00dles
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Drives: 2015 FRS
Location: Bay Area California
Posts: 91
Thanks: 48
Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
In light of the info from this thread, I think a Jackson Racing Rad/Oil Cooler is in my future.
ninjan00dles is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ninjan00dles For This Useful Post:
DarkPira7e (12-31-2020)
Old 12-31-2020, 08:53 AM   #34
ZDan
Senior Member
 
ZDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,597
Thanks: 1,382
Thanked 3,909 Times in 2,039 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
I think this is more representative of cooler vs. no cooler data. To me it is not entirely conclusive as I have not observed the same behavior on my car. I will be switching to a setup to log oil temps and pressure on my car next year.
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91820
Yeah, this is one of my go-to sources, it would be GREAT to get some more data like this, specifically oil temp and oil pressure going into the engine (post-cooler), with and without oil cooler, as well as *max* oil temp (pre-cooler, or sump?). Might be much to ask?

Might as well post up data from the link:


What this is telling us: an oil cooler does bring oil temps down at the track, in this case by about 25F-30F. But is 275F *really* a problem for good synthetic oil? I don't think it is. But what about oil pressure? Plot shows the same pressure for the same 5w30 oil whether it's at 275F without an oil cooler (yellow), or at 250F *with* an oil cooler (green). This is only one set of data, but the conclusion could be drawn that pressure drop due to the cooler nearly exactly offsets the pressure that should have been gained due to cooler oil.

Last edited by ZDan; 12-31-2020 at 09:21 AM.
ZDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2020, 09:19 AM   #35
ZDan
Senior Member
 
ZDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,597
Thanks: 1,382
Thanked 3,909 Times in 2,039 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pallen View Post
To be fair, he does specify for track use and especially FI. I did laugh when he said you have to have an oil cooler, then spent several minutes complaining about how it's hard to get the oil up to temp.
Exactly!

He tells us: "We've already established that, if you track this car, stock or with forced induction, you need an oil cooler on the car, there's no way around it."
No, we have not established that... Him having "talked to people who race" doesn't establish the *need* for an oil cooler.

He refers to the service manual which gives specs for oil pressure, but what he doesn't mention is that those specs are not an absolute requirement, but are referenced to *a specified temperature* which is close to normal operating temp. Of *course* pressure will drop with elevated temperature and it's higher at lower temps (which he mentions). The spec just means that at the *specified* temperature, pressure significantly lower than spec indicates there's a problem. It does not mean it's a "problem" if pressure is lower than that at higher temps. He does mention "you wanna stay out of the 40psi range", so maybe he does understand that pressures below the "spec" are somewhat to be expected. But anyway, he's speaking as if he has authority on the subject that I don't think he actually does...

Last edited by ZDan; 12-31-2020 at 09:35 AM.
ZDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2020, 10:07 AM   #36
Calum
That Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: 2013 asphalt FRS MT
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 4,865
Thanks: 5,058
Thanked 2,867 Times in 1,499 Posts
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Everything I've read says that synthetic oil is fine at even 300F. Why is there such a push to put oil coolers on these cars? You want the oil hot (>212F) so it burns off the water from combustion byproducts. Unless you're changing it really often. Why not just skip the pressure lose of a cooler and run an appropriate oil for the temperatures. M1 0W-40 to get the best viscosity index I know of would be my thought process as it should maintain its viscosity well as temperatures increase and still act like 0W-20 at startup. If your oil temps are going higher than 300F or if you're pressure is going too low - and the oil cooler will actually increase post cooler pressure - then get one. Otherwise, why add the complication?
Calum is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Calum For This Useful Post:
ZDan (12-31-2020)
Old 12-31-2020, 10:47 AM   #37
Grady
Senior Member
 
Grady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Drives: BRZ Yellow, 2019 Ranger, 2011 Evora
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,690
Thanks: 352
Thanked 1,478 Times in 773 Posts
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calum View Post
Everything I've read says that synthetic oil is fine at even 300F. Why is there such a push to put oil coolers on these cars? You want the oil hot (>212F) so it burns off the water from combustion byproducts. Unless you're changing it really often. Why not just skip the pressure lose of a cooler and run an appropriate oil for the temperatures. M1 0W-40 to get the best viscosity index I know of would be my thought process as it should maintain its viscosity well as temperatures increase and still act like 0W-20 at startup. If your oil temps are going higher than 300F or if you're pressure is going too low - and the oil cooler will actually increase post cooler pressure - then get one. Otherwise, why add the complication?
No one is worried about damaging the oil. The oil will not break down but your viscosity goes down and makes it easier to break through the oil barrier and have metal to metal contact. 20 weight will have a higher viscosity at 250 than 40 weight at 300. Oil pressure has very little effect on protecting components I will give up the couple of PSI drop for 40 deg of temp. Yes I run 0w40, oil cooler and still get to 250 at the track, 200 summer street and around 180 winter. 180 to 200 will still evaporate the moisture, it will take longer.
Grady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2020, 11:11 AM   #38
ZDan
Senior Member
 
ZDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,597
Thanks: 1,382
Thanked 3,909 Times in 2,039 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grady View Post
No one is worried about damaging the oil. The oil will not break down but your viscosity goes down and makes it easier to break through the oil barrier and have metal to metal contact. 20 weight will have a higher viscosity at 250 than 40 weight at 300.
And 30 weight oil at 275F will have about the same viscosity as 20 weight at 235F. My oil temps stabilize at a tick over 270F indicated at the track (no matter what ambient temp), so I run 30 weight, might consider 40wt next year...
ZDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2020, 11:28 AM   #39
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,214
Thanks: 18,261
Thanked 16,381 Times in 7,414 Posts
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDan View Post
Yeah, this is one of my go-to sources, it would be GREAT to get some more data like this, specifically oil temp and oil pressure going into the engine (post-cooler), with and without oil cooler, as well as *max* oil temp (pre-cooler, or sump?). Might be much to ask?
I will try to do some sort testing next season, I have another timing cover I could drill and tap for running sending units on the inlet and outlet side. It is still sitting in my aluminum scrap pile. As I have mentioned quite a bit before, I seem to get a lot of cavitation on 5-30 at high RPMs. My peak pressures from 6k to redline were really not that much different then 0-20 because of it and the pressure was more stable with 0-20. Granted, I have only measured this with an oil cooler on the car.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2020, 01:19 PM   #40
ZDan
Senior Member
 
ZDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Drives: '23 BRZ
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 4,597
Thanks: 1,382
Thanked 3,909 Times in 2,039 Posts
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
I will try to do some sort testing next season, I have another timing cover I could drill and tap for running sending units on the inlet and outlet side. It is still sitting in my aluminum scrap pile.
that'd be cool

Quote:
As I have mentioned quite a bit before, I seem to get a lot of cavitation on 5-30 at high RPMs. My peak pressures from 6k to redline were really not that much different then 0-20 because of it and the pressure was more stable with 0-20. Granted, I have only measured this with an oil cooler on the car.
Yeah, that's a concern for me as well, one reason I'm running 30wt instead of 40wt for track season...
I'm sure you're familiar with this thread:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134863
Do you have KillerB pickup tube?
ZDan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ZDan For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (12-31-2020)
Old 12-31-2020, 01:21 PM   #41
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,214
Thanks: 18,261
Thanked 16,381 Times in 7,414 Posts
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDan View Post
that'd be cool



Yeah, that's a concern for me as well, one reason I'm running 30wt instead of 40wt for track season...
I'm sure you're familiar with this thread:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134863
Do you have KillerB pickup tube?
Yeah I have read it a few times. I had a KillerB pickup but it was not usable and ended up being a big ordeal between me and them.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
ZDan (12-31-2020)
Old 12-31-2020, 04:12 PM   #42
ninjan00dles
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Drives: 2015 FRS
Location: Bay Area California
Posts: 91
Thanks: 48
Thanked 67 Times in 35 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Yeah I have read it a few times. I had a KillerB pickup but it was not usable and ended up being a big ordeal between me and them.
Not usable in what sense? I read through the same thread Dan posted and was additionally planning on getting a baffled pan along with the killerb pickup.
ninjan00dles is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Air to Oil Cooler or Radiator with Integrated Oil Cooler? George Rosebush Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 7 02-17-2020 03:49 PM
SOLD - RacerX Oil Cooler with Auto Transmission Cooler and Temp Gauge tws98 Engine, Exhaust, Bolt-Ons 0 05-28-2019 10:50 PM
AT Trans Cooler: Performance cooler vs Standard Faulkner Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) 5 04-30-2018 11:34 AM
WTB: Perrin Oil Cooler vs Jackson Racing Radiator/Oil Cooler TheMedakaBox Northern California 4 08-09-2017 10:16 PM
Robispec Radiator/oil cooler NEW $800 or trade for NEW FB oil cooler kit. mike the snake Engine, Exhaust, Bolt-Ons 1 01-31-2014 05:46 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.