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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 08-07-2016, 04:05 PM   #15
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VeloxEric: can you elaborate on "No shroud is more efficient at high speeds"? I'm trying to think as to why >30mph with shroud might be less efficient. More drag? But will difference be noticeable of 10x10cm passing by sides of rad via very unstreamlined surfaces/parts or if everything goes through rad fins? "too much cooling" from ram-air? But then imho that will just mean that thermostats and ecu controlling fans will deal with that by closing big loop sooner or working less fans ..
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Old 08-09-2016, 02:18 AM   #16
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VeloxEric: can you elaborate on "No shroud is more efficient at high speeds"? I'm trying to think as to why >30mph with shroud might be less efficient. More drag? But will difference be noticeable of 10x10cm passing by sides of rad via very unstreamlined surfaces/parts or if everything goes through rad fins? "too much cooling" from ram-air? But then imho that will just mean that thermostats and ecu controlling fans will deal with that by closing big loop sooner or working less fans ..
I'll do my best to answer this as I don't fully understand everything you're asking due to different languages.

Shrouds block radiator core face on the back side. This creates high-pressure post radiator, which reduces the amount of airflow through the radiator at high speeds. Reduced airflow generally means a reduction in heat rejection, while the ultimate goal is to increase heat rejection.

Fans are used to supplement airflow at low speeds with a properly functioning cooling system. Airflow above 30MPH is higher/faster than what fans are capable of pulling through the radiator.

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Eric
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Old 08-09-2016, 05:36 AM   #17
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Ouch. I mistakenly attributed that 'shroud/no shroud speed cooling efficiency' to front radgrill airducts on sides in front of rad instead of shroud on back of rad, yet still referred that as shroud too, when asking.
I see you are rolling out several new products, eg. appart from this rad also clutch fork, oilcatch separator and so on. I wonder what else will be on plate for us. Keep good stuff coming
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:56 PM   #18
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In the meantime, we created a page for this product. We'd like to drop the price down if we can get more people interested; but for now, it looks like it'll be offered on a build as it's ordered product. It will take approximately 3-4 weeks to fully build a radiator like this unless we have one in stock.

http://www.velox-motorsports.com/#!p...e-b4d0206d1b3e

Feel free to contact us with any questions as well. Any other questions regarding this or cooling systems in general, feel free to ask.

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 08-13-2016, 04:30 PM   #19
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Any details on the re-wiring with 2 relays? Any recomendation on which amp fuse you went with?
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Old 08-13-2016, 06:45 PM   #20
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Any details on the re-wiring with 2 relays? Any recomendation on which amp fuse you went with?
Typical relay wiring. Grab new power from the battery, 30 amp fuse, nice solid ground, then grab signal power from the OEM wiring.

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Old 08-13-2016, 07:26 PM   #21
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I don't think you answered this question, I apologize if it's a repeat.

You mentioned one of your fans shutting down due to heat and I noticed in one image it looks like you're shielding the back of the fan from the manifold. Is this a concern for those of us in hot climates (like Phoenix) and trying to make sure we maintain good working AC in heavy slow traffic. It's one of the concerns I have with a top mount turbo and the small fans most seem to use to make space.

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Old 08-15-2016, 02:54 AM   #22
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I don't think you answered this question, I apologize if it's a repeat.

You mentioned one of your fans shutting down due to heat and I noticed in one image it looks like you're shielding the back of the fan from the manifold. Is this a concern for those of us in hot climates (like Phoenix) and trying to make sure we maintain good working AC in heavy slow traffic. It's one of the concerns I have with a top mount turbo and the small fans most seem to use to make space.

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Why the fan shut down:
SPAL fans have a shut-down temperature. They can and will overheat if used in hot environments and shut down temporarily. I *believe* mine shut down due to the rapid increase in coolant temps about 45 minutes into a traffic jam in 115+ ambient degree temp. This was likely a combination of rather hot air passing through the radiator (coolant temps were around 200 before spiking to 212), the fan running non-stop for 45 minutes, and the exhaust manifold being within 1/2" from the rear of the fan. I'm not worried about it happening again, I don't think it will to be honest, it was just the perfect storm and yet the radiator still kept the engine cool.

Maintaining good coolant and AC at low air/road speeds:
This is where a shroud and good fans really come into play. However, a lot of the fan shrouds on the market have low profile fans. These units are really bad at pulling airflow through a thick cooling stack. Fans pull a certain amount of airflow at certain pressure drops. Low profile fans really stink at pulling through higher pressure drops, which shoving a thicker radiator and CAC out front definitely increases pressure drop. High profile fans have the power to continue to pull large amounts of air through the cooling stack through this higher pressure drop.

Your eyes are probably rolling back into your head at this point, it's not an easy subject to inform people about without diagrams and working through a case. It's on the long list of possible blog articles, we'll try to get to it sooner than later.

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Eric
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Old 08-15-2016, 11:26 AM   #23
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What about the fans? Are the fans on the new radiator fan better than the oem fans? Do they function better? Looks interesting

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Old 08-15-2016, 12:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloxEric View Post
Why the fan shut down:
Your eyes are probably rolling back into your head at this point, it's not an easy subject to inform people about without diagrams and working through a case. It's on the long list of possible blog articles, we'll try to get to it sooner than later.
Not at all. I geek out pretty hard on data.

This kit you are potentially offering will not come with a shroud per your previous post but I believe you did state that these are not low profile fans and it sounds like you have less pressure drop with this thinner design (thus increasing the flow through the AC core?).

What affected performance hit (or not) should we expect on the A/C from this setup at low speeds and huge ambient temps (110+F)?

Maybe I'm trying to make this thing do something you're not after? I know you're trying to maximize flow at high speed track conditions, but I live in AZ and even driving back and forth to the track I want my AC to work as well as possible.

Love the products you keep pushing out. Thanks for offering another well thought out piece to the community!
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:46 AM   #25
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What about the fans? Are the fans on the new radiator fan better than the oem fans? Do they function better? Looks interesting
Yes, I believe these are. However, the OEM fans have a very nice shroud. OEM fans are designed more around sound and performance and they leave a bit on the table. I can assume the SPAL units likely outflow the OEM units fan to fan, the SPAL units also pull more amps.

Quote:
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Not at all. I geek out pretty hard on data.

This kit you are potentially offering will not come with a shroud per your previous post but I believe you did state that these are not low profile fans and it sounds like you have less pressure drop with this thinner design (thus increasing the flow through the AC core?).

What affected performance hit (or not) should we expect on the A/C from this setup at low speeds and huge ambient temps (110+F)?

Maybe I'm trying to make this thing do something you're not after? I know you're trying to maximize flow at high speed track conditions, but I live in AZ and even driving back and forth to the track I want my AC to work as well as possible.

Love the products you keep pushing out. Thanks for offering another well thought out piece to the community!
I noticed slightly hotter a/c at low air speeds. Not enough to make me uncomfortable but it definitely is cooler once you get above 30-40MPH.

If you're after a/c function, especially at idle, a shroud would be a very wise choice.

Thanks,
Eric

Last edited by VerusEric; 10-27-2016 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 10-27-2016, 11:44 AM   #26
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I finally finished a blog post explaining the difference between high-performance fans and low profile fans. There is some good information in it, definitely worth a read for anyone looking at a fan setup in this chassis.

http://www.velox-motorsports.com/sin...nd-Information

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 12-18-2016, 10:45 PM   #27
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We've sold a few units since starting this thread and have been asked a few questions via social media, e-mail, and PMs. I thought I'd answer a few of these questions below that have been asked repeatedly.

If we ever get enough interest for this radiator to get 6-8 guys to go in on a group buy, we can probably knock off a decent chunk on pricing as well, just let me know!

Where is the radiator produced?
-The core is produced by Denso in Michigan.
-The radiator was designed by myself.
-The sheet metal is cut and bent in Indiana by a leading cooling system provider for various motorsports series.
-The radiator is then assembled, welded, and pressure checked by this same company. Welding is performed by highly trained welders, the same welders that weld radiators for IndyCar, NASCAR, WRC, LMP1, etc.

Can you sell just the radiator, no fans?
-Yes, we can. We do not recommend it though as we do not have provision for mounting a fan shroud.

Can you weld on a bung for temp sensor or some other feature?
-Yes, we can. I will be doing the welding through. I also pressure test it to ensure it won't leak.

What makes the radiator so expensive?
-The core primarily. The core's cost is higher than most other radiator's ship price. We don't want to change this though as that was the goal behind this radiator, to produce something no one else offers.
-Another thing to potentially keep in mind is that adding a low profile fan shroud and fans to another radiator starts to bring the prices more in-line with our unit. Our unit is a bolt-in application with a much thinner install thickness than OEM, and higher heat rejection than OEM. There's no need to buy a fan shroud or fans, or anything!

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 12-18-2016, 11:03 PM   #28
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I just noticed that the fan blades are different on the oem rad from left to right. I really can't think of why? Fans are for slow or non moving speeds. I would think a single optimized design would be best?
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