Lowering Springs vs. Coilovers for a 1 in. drop?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Espi

I did, well Gran Turismo East here in ATL did it for me.

Those guys are *THE BEST*! Only shop I've been to where they basically complete my sentences for me regarding track-appropriate alignments. When I had them do my Cayman after GT3 shimmable front control arms, they had extra fine-tuning shims to get same L/R camber which I wasn't even gonna worry about. They just did it, with me in the car of course. Highly recommended!

[Espi]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Those guys are *THE BEST*! Only shop I've been to where they basically complete my sentences for me regarding track-appropriate alignments. When I had them do my Cayman after GT3 shimmable front control arms, they had extra fine-tuning shims to get same L/R camber which I wasn't even gonna worry about. They just did it, with me in the car of course. Highly recommended!

LOL yep they very much a "here is my car, do your magic and take my money" shop.

[marco_mc22]

Hey why not premium coils if money isn’t a problem? A premium single adjustable capable of stockish ride heights like Ohlins RT or Intrax Rsa would be a good choice Imo, also Jrz rs one or Nitron R1

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by marco_mc22

Hey why not premium coils if money isn’t a problem? A premium single adjustable capable of stockish ride heights like Ohlins RT or Intrax Rsa would be a good choice Imo, also Jrz rs one or Nitron R1

Daily driver, no track usage mentioned, IMO no reason to go to spherical uppers and threaded perches which will wear out relatively quickly under daily usage and offer next to no real benefit. Good high-quality coilovers are fine but IMO good lowering springs with desired rates and drop combined with known-good dampers oriented more for real-world daily-driving is possibly a better option for less $$$ for daily.

OP:

Originally Posted by NateBRZ

I am looking to drop an inch or so, possibly less depending on wheel and tire size I go. I drive my car as a daily, but I also shred backroads almost everyday. I would enjoy a good ride quality, but a little more rugged is okay with me. Money isn't really a problem either, I have a while before I plan to do this and don't want to cheap out. So, my question is, coils or springs for my style?

[SuperTom]

After years and years and modding I always go right to coilovers. Reason being ride hide changes on springs arent always as advertised. Also there can be height differences from side to side. Coilovers let you set the height perfectly all the way around.

Once you install springs after a few days of settling, that is what you are stuck with

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

After years and years and modding I always go right to coilovers. Reason being ride hide changes on springs arent always as advertised. Also there can be height differences from side to side. Coilovers let you set the height perfectly all the way around.

Once you install springs after a few days of settling, that is what you are stuck with

I've done it both ways. Never had significant height differences side-to-side either way.

Feedback from others who have used exact same springs should give a pretty good idea what to expect in terms of lowering.

With lowering springs + camber plates on the BRZ, I got -1.5" front and -1.25" rear (vs. 1.1" all around claimed). I've pretty much determined that the greater drop at the front was due to the aftermarket camber plate/spring perch design combined with dialing in max camber. I "adjusted" front height by having 6mm aluminum spacer machined to go between springs and perches and now I'm -1.25 all around.

Without camber plates, I think going RCE springs for ~0.8" drop or with Swift springs for ~1.1-1.25" drop shouldn't result in ride heights being screwed up f/r or l/r, unless they were screwed up to begin with for some reason...

I'm not against coilovers at all, and may yet go that route on my street/track car. But there are ways to get desired ride height with just lowering springs, or combined lowering springs + Bilsteins (which I'd still recommend if going more than ~0.8" lower).

Relevant Colin Chapman quote: "Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong... "

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I "adjusted" front height by having 6mm aluminum spacer machined to go between springs and perches and now I'm -1.25 all around.

Did you need longer studs on the top hats?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Did you need longer studs on the top hats?

No, the spacers went between the spring itself and the spring perch so no effect on attachment to the unibody. This gained me much needed bump travel. Just spacing between top hats and the mount on the unibody would have adjusted ride height but with no gain in bump travel.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by ZDan

No, the spacers went between the spring itself and the spring perch so no effect on attachment to the unibody. This gained me much needed bump travel. Just spacing between top hats and the mount on the unibody would have adjusted ride height but with no gain in bump travel.

Oh that’s a much better idea!

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Daily driver, no track usage mentioned, IMO no reason to go to spherical uppers and threaded perches which will wear out relatively quickly under daily usage and offer next to no real benefit.

Just to add context to the term "rather quickly," my BRZ is my daily driver year round here on shitty, salty, pothole-littered Chicago roads. I have Raceseng camber plates with spherical bearings, and the bearings lasted like 6 years, and around 80,000 miles before they wore out and started clunking.

[gen3v8]

I was always springs and Bilies. My last two setups (Dailies) have been coilovers. The latest set I purchased from a company that races and builds suspension parts for 86s and more. MCA they advised me against their top racing set to go down a notch. I bolted the set they supplied up and nothing needed touching, heightwise. I only change the dampening and that so far seems perfect for road and track settings. Although I will one day fiddle with settings at the track. We`ll see how they last and their reconditioning is cheap also.

Edit Springs and Bilies and Sways

[grumpysnapper]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Daily driver, no track usage mentioned, IMO no reason to go to spherical uppers and threaded perches which will wear out relatively quickly under daily usage and offer next to no real benefit. Good high-quality coilovers are fine but IMO good lowering springs with desired rates and drop combined with known-good dampers oriented more for real-world daily-driving is possibly a better option for less $$$ for daily.

OP:

Although a set of good coilovers doesn’t actually need spherical uppers, and can work beautifully with the standard tops.
The Ohlins RT’s that I ran a while ago got severe off road beatings, and the threaded perches seemed fine.
I guess I’m just not sure that if money isn’t an extreme issue, why wouldn’t you also improve the quality of the damping, given the reduction in ride height is going to already be compromising the standard (and fairly ordinary) factory units … and especially so for hard driving on back roads?
I %100 agree about the temptations and pitfalls of adjustability…

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

Just to add context to the term "rather quickly," my BRZ is my daily driver year round here on shitty, salty, pothole-littered Chicago roads. I have Raceseng camber plates with spherical bearings, and the bearings lasted like 6 years, and around 80,000 miles before they wore out and started clunking.

I didn't say "rather quickly". I said "relatively quickly".

Still, what I should have said and meant to imply was that reliability and longevity will likely be reduced *relative to the OEM setup*, and not that they'll wear out "quickly". FWIW I've also gotten decent longevity out of these parts, but I've also had steel bodies and adjustment collars rust to bejeezus, and I've had aluminum ones (Ohlins) seize to point of no longer being easily "adjustable".

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by grumpysnapper

I guess I’m just not sure that if money isn’t an extreme issue, why wouldn’t you also improve the quality of the damping, given the reduction in ride height is going to already be compromising the standard (and fairly ordinary) factory units … and especially so for hard driving on back roads?
I %100 agree about the temptations and pitfalls of adjustability…

Of the handful of 1-way adjustable dampers I've had over the years, only one set adjusted both high- and low-speed rebound and compression damping in a balanced way that I was happy with.

Set of Tein SS coilovers I had just had godawful excessive high-speed compression damping no matter how they were set. And Ohlins R&T I had honestly blew off too much on the high-speed side and I wanted more high-speed compression and rebound but adjustment only altered low-speed damping.

Meanwhile I've had sets of basic non-adjustable replacement KYB struts and shocks where I thought the balance of low- and high-speed damping was just perfect right out of the box!

Long/short, unless you get really sophisticated dampers with separate high- and low-speed, rebound and compression adjustability, you're not guaranteed (or even likely) to be able to get overall damping how you want it with 1- or 2-ways anyway. And then again with 3- or 4-way adjustables, without suspension motion data it's unlikely you'll be able to set them properly anyway!

My impression is that good non-adjustable dampers may do a better job of balancing high/low and rebound/compression vs. more basic 1- or 2-way adjustables.

All that said, I would like to be able to dial up both low- and high-speed damping a bit on my Bilstein B8s! They seem a little on the soft side for Swift Spec-R springs...