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Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


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Old 03-20-2017, 08:43 AM   #85
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this is interesting: http://www.mtiracing.com/brake-fluid-torque-rt700.html

they claim that RT700 is basically ProSpeed RS683 rebranded (plus a premium for the name change). I compared specs and they seem identical as well.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:24 AM   #86
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Most of those who track their cars won't have any issues at all using fresh off-the-shelf DOT4. That's what I've mainly used over the years, in 255hp 240Z (stock solid front rotors and calipers, 280ZX rear rotors/calipers), stock S2000, and 550hp FD RX-7 (328mm front rotors/ST40 calipers). Never any issues with soft pedal due to overheating off-the-shelf DOT4, even running the same fluid for three events/6 track days without bleeding.

Interestingly enough I tried ATE SuperBlue on the S2000 once, and on day two at Watkins Glen pedal started to get soft and I had to bleed. Since then I just run Pennzoil or Castrol DOT4. No problems.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:04 PM   #87
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Indeed, interesting find on that Prospeed RS683. Would be nice to see it with better availability and from trustable shops.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:02 PM   #88
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Wow that's shaddy as hell. I wonder why he just dropped off the grid...
Likely because he couldn't fulfill some big orders. Companies like ECS tuning, were buying it by the pallet. When they couldn't get more, a few company's did charge backs and he lost his Square account, and was black listed for credit card processing companies. (this is what he told me, the last time he dropped off 2 of the 5 cases I bought)
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:07 PM   #89
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He owes us 10 cases.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:26 PM   #90
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He owes us 10 cases.
That sucks - being a business owner myself, I hate shady business practices.

I've been running Torque RT700 for several months and have been very happy with it. I purchased mine from @CounterSpace Garage and will need to replace it within a few months, but obviously you were stiffed and can't get it any longer. Has anyone at @CounterSpace Garage been able to confirm that RS683 is indeed re-branded Torque RT700? If so, can you give us any insight on the story behind the relationship between the two companies? Torque RT700 had some significant benefits and you guys were definitely evangelists for the product, so what do you plan on running in your cars now that Torque RT700 is no longer available?
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:46 PM   #91
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That sucks - being a business owner myself, I hate shady business practices.

I've been running Torque RT700 for several months and have been very happy with it. I purchased mine from @CounterSpace Garage and will need to replace it within a few months, but obviously you were stiffed and can't get it any longer. Has anyone at @CounterSpace Garage been able to confirm that RS683 is indeed re-branded Torque RT700? If so, can you give us any insight on the story behind the relationship between the two companies? Torque RT700 had some significant benefits and you guys were definitely evangelists for the product, so what do you plan on running in your cars now that Torque RT700 is no longer available?
Torque RT700 is an excellent brake fluid that has worked very well for us and for many of our clients. While we cannot really say much on the business practices of Torque or Prospeed, one thing is for certain, the product itself is good and it works. In terms of rebranding, we really don't know for certain, but the specs do look very similar.

The fact that Torque is currently not producing product obviously concerns us. Right now, we want our 10 cases. It is clear we pushed this product very hard years ago and many benefited from our insane level of testing. We know this product quite well and that does benefit our clients tremendously especially with their applications.

If you're interested in what you will need to flush out your system, please contact us direct.
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Old 03-24-2017, 02:09 AM   #92
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Garage
Torque is probably my favorite brake fluid ever, used it on my FRS/S2000/Fiesta ST with great results. Thing would always recover like a champ.

However I'm still waiting for 3 bottles of Torque ordered direct through the Torque website on Nov 28 2015... their customer support is MIA. So I won't support the brand – or any reboots by the same owner– going forward.

Switched to Castrol SRF and doing OK.
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Old 03-24-2017, 09:00 PM   #93
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here are some pictures comparing RT700 and RS683. One thing to note is that the RS683 bottle advertises a boiling point of 682F on the front, but the back details state that the dry ERBP is 583F. I found that kind of of weird. also, all the text on the back of both bottles are exactly the same. Just replace Torque RT700 with ProSpeed RS683 wording. I'm thinking they're the same product.



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Old 03-29-2017, 08:02 PM   #94
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I spoke to Gene Mahan, the owner of Prospeed Motorsport, and I have some information that will be helpful to the forum and can shed some light on what exactly happened with Torque RT700. Gene was a business partner with Michael Wachholz and together they created the Torque RT700 brand and marketed the product. Gene's role was primarily as a financial backer, while Michael was responsible for sales, marketing, and running the business day-to-day. According to Gene, he became aware that Michael was not acting ethically, was marketing the product with fraudulent claims, and was failing to fulfill customer orders, and he decided to terminate his financial involvement in the business. Michael then seized their inventory of 45 cases of brake fluid and claimed that it never existed or had already been sold. It appears that at this point he continued to take customer and distributor money, but failed to fulfill a substantial number of orders. Police reports were filed and there's currently an arrest warrant for Michael Wachholz in the state of Colorado, and it's suspected that he's fled the state. Crazy story, huh?

Gene told me that neither Torque, Inc. or Prospeed Motorsport manufacture the product, but that it's made under contract by a third party and that RT700 and RS683 are, in fact, the same exact fluid - although Prospeed Motorsport RS683 sells for considerably less than Torque RT700. The discrepancies in the wet and dry boiling points between the two fluids was one of the ways that Gene initially caught Michael making fraudulent claims, which he found while reviewing the specifications from the manufacturer. He said he's marketed RS683 with accurate specifications, but there still seems to be an inconsistency on the front label regarding dry boiling point. He also said that even with the lower wet and dry boiling points the fluid is exceptional and has some very unique properties - which has been borne out by extensive testing by @CounterSpace Garage here on this forum.

For people like myself who have used and liked Torque RT700, Prospeed Motorsport RS683 is an excellent direct replacement. I suggested that Gene talk with @CounterSpace Garage to see if they would like to distribute or sell RS683, and he seemed very interested at the suggestion - particularly because they had so much direct experience with the product when marketed as RT700. @CounterSpace Garage, if you're interested please PM me and I can give you Gene's mobile number and e-mail address.

No doubt, it's a crazy story - I wanted to share it with the forum and I hope it was helpful to those that wondered what the hell happened to Torque RT700!

Last edited by RJasonKlein; 03-29-2017 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Corrected a typographical error.
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:16 AM   #95
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Wow. I wonder if there are any automotive journalists who would be interested in covering this story?

I'm also glad there's a direct replacement for Torque!
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Old 03-30-2017, 08:29 PM   #96
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@ryoma where'd you get the prospeed fluid from? There are very few sites that currently have them in stock
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Old 03-30-2017, 11:12 PM   #97
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@ryoma where'd you get the prospeed fluid from? There are very few sites that currently have them in stock
I bought it from Mueller Motorwerks on Amazon. it's out of stock on Amazon but in stock on their site (not sure if the stock checker is up to date): https://www.muellermotorwerks.com/pr...i-1985187.aspx
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:31 PM   #98
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Just the messenger here. I was asked to post this.

Quote:
Michael G Wachholz This is something else you may want to post to the forum...

ALL brake fluid, Motul, AP Racing, Brembo, Galffer, EBC Brakes, Wilwood, Stoptech and many many more literally 98% of all performance brake fluids are produced by a 3rd party vendor. In the case of the fluids listed about ALL are EXACTLY the same brake fluid from a company called "Orthene Chemical" (http://www.orthene.com/) Many of them even come is the same bottle with just a different color.

Yes, RT700 is blended by a USA based 3rd party vendor, who happens to be the #1 manufacturer and OEM supplier of brake fluid in the WORLD. RT700 is full produced, bottled, in the USA. Even the labels and cartons, helmet visor strips, banners, etc are all produced in the USA. With rare exception by other small private businness' like Torque. I've never attempted to mislead anyone to that fact. And all my dealers are completely aware of that.

FWIW, there are only few (like < 5) true producers of brake fluid of any kind in the world. Torque is fortunate to have developed and maintained a relationship with our fluid supplier for about 15 years.

All that said, RT700 IS NOT the same as RS683. Gene doesn't know the first thing about brake fluid. While it has been my exclusive focus for almost 15 years. I would suggest (yes, just my personal opinion. And not attempting to disrespect Gene, just stating facts) you take anything Gene says about brake fluid with a heavy duty grain of salt.

Orthene - Innovative, specialist manufacturers of brake and clutch fluid
ORTHENE.COM
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