ACE Header Independent Testing Results and Review - 199.6WHP on CA 91 Octane

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by MisterSheep

Has anyone gotten any dyno results of this header with strictly E85?

I would expect maybe 1-2 more horsepower from the dynos we posted.

@sw20kosh

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by MisterSheep

Has anyone gotten any dyno results of this header with strictly E85?

Well after this weekend I should have some data to share on that topic

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by MisterSheep

Has anyone gotten any dyno results of this header with strictly E85?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=413

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I would expect maybe 1-2 more horsepower from the dynos we posted.

@sw20kosh

Why so little? Are you able to run near MBT with the Ace header?

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by stevo585

Why so little? Are you able to run near MBT with the Ace header?

There is confusion I think. The question sounds like "what is the benefit of running pure E85 vs doing a flex tune".

Mike's response would be accurate for that question as a tuner can tune for max output on e85.

A flex fuel tune is based off a 91-93 octane tune. The flex fuel adds a multiplier on top of the 91 tune which is where you get the power.

An e85 only tune would be fine tuned with e85. This is how I understand it.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by stevo585

Why so little? Are you able to run near MBT with the Ace header?

Even cheap headers make good power on E85








, but the great point about the ace header is makes great power on 91/93 octane petrol


this seems to be the case with p-tuning header as well

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

There is confusion I think. The question sounds like "what is the benefit of running pure E85 vs doing a flex tune".

Mike's response would be accurate for that question as a tuner can tune for max output on e85.

A flex fuel tune is based off a 91-93 octane tune. The flex fuel adds a multiplier on top of the 91 tune which is where you get the power.

An e85 only tune would be fine tuned with e85. This is how I understand it.

True flex fuel is best I do without it. I just have a winter e65 and summer e80 map in my ecutek tune. Afr's are always close usually in 12.2 range with ~28 degrees of timing up top. All street tuning so MBT is interpolated via the tuners experience.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by steve99

Even cheap headers make good power on E85








, but the great point about the ace header is makes great power on 91/93 octane petrol


this seems to be the case with p-tuning header as well

Would be helpful for people who arent close to e85. I'm semi-close at 15 miles but still inconvenient even though I take back 10 gallons as well. Only get about 18 mpg in the city burn through so fast.

I assume the extra power is coming from a slightly leaner tune and more timing allowed by the ACE header? Be nice to know the details. I'm only able to run 23-24 degrees up top on 93.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by stevo585

Would be helpful for people who arent close to e85. I'm semi-close at 15 miles but still inconvenient even though I take back 10 gallons as well. Only get about 18 mpg in the city burn through so fast.

I assume the extra power is coming from a slightly leaner tune and more timing allowed by the ACE header? Be nice to know the details. I'm only able to run 23-24 degrees up top on 93.

Let me elaborate.

The scavenging effect of the Ace system is much more powerful than most headers out there. The RPM at which the scavenging is most effective is determined by your final merge (150/250/350); this is why the overpipe alters the powerband.

Most people prefer the 350, because it gives the fattest mid range, while still having excellent top end gains.

The scavenging allows for more exhaust gas to be evacuated out of the cylinder during the exhaust stroke. This means less exhaust is still present in the cylinder when the next intake stroke begins. Now, there is no such engine/header/drivetrain that is 100% efficient; that's impossible, but the Ace header allows for more efficiency than most, and gets one step closer to a theoretical optimum efficiency.

Now, as you know, exhaust gas is HOT. That remaining exhaust gas is mixing with your intake charge, heating up that charge a bit, but because there's less exhaust gas, it's heating up the charge less. This allows you to run more ignition timing, netting you more torque.

E85 has a similar effect, but with a completely different mechanism. Ethanol evaporates rather quickly, and due to the lower specific energy, a higher volume of E85 is squirted into your intake stream and charge. As it evaporates, it absorbs heat out of the intake charge, which allows for a dramatic timing increase in many cases. However, because the charge temperature within the cylinder is much lower with the Ace header, Ethanol has less heat to absorb, and starts to get into diminishing returns territory on timing gains. There are still timing gains to be had, but not as much as with a less efficient header.


Bonus: This is where ceramic coating comes in. The ceramic rejects the heat, resisting absorbing heat from the exhaust gas (it still does, but at a much lower rate than stainless). This helps the exhaust gas stay hotter as it's going out the exhaust system, which means the gas has more energy, more volume, and more velocity. More velocity and volume means more scavenging, which means more power.


Also, a side note. The Type A/350 lead time is now down to about 2 weeks to your door. Soon, they will be in stock at CSG, with a few units being pre-ceramic coated, for those that want the option.

[brzaapi]

Ok. Later tonight I am going to be able to post at least one Dyno sheet that compares the stock 91, ace 91 and ace e85(e77 actually). But I just back home and I am on baby patrol. So bare with me. I am waiting for the Dynos to be emailed anyway

But some basic numbers from Cobbs awd mustang Dyno( that reads very low)

Stock - 149hp 124tq
( my stock setup means - delicious tuning ff kit and tune. So if I had to guess
my true stock numbers would likely be 141hp and 119tq. Again , just my guess)

Ace 91 - 162hp 139tq

Ace E77 - 176hp 147tq

I will report back later with more info. But I am damn happy with the car. Beyond the Dyno numbers, the car responds and drives much better. It finally feels like the car isnt choking while accelerating. And dare I say that the car does feel much more rev'y and race car-ish. It does make the brz feel more s2000 like. And that's a good thing in my book. It's only 27 horses, but the most impressive 27 horses I have ever added.

Be back later.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

Ok. Later tonight I am going to be able to post at least one Dyno sheet that compares the stock 91, ace 91 and ace e85(e77 actually). But I just back home and I am on baby patrol. So bare with me. I am waiting for the Dynos to be emailed anyway

But some basic numbers from Cobbs awd mustang Dyno( that reads very low)

Stock - 149hp 124tq
( my stock setup means - delicious tuning ff kit and tune. So if I had to guess
my true stock numbers would likely be 141hp and 119tq. Again , just my guess)

Ace 91 - 162hp 139tq

Ace E77 - 176hp 147tq

I will report back later with more info. But I am damn happy with the car. Beyond the Dyno numbers, the car responds and drives much better. It finally feels like the car isnt choking while accelerating. And dare I say that the car does feel much more rev'y and race car-ish. It does make the brz feel more s2000 like. And that's a good thing in my book. It's only 27 horses, but the most impressive 27 horses I have ever added.

Be back later.

Remember, you're not just adding to the peak; you're adding to the ENTIRE powerband.

It may "only" be 27 horses, but that's an 18% increase in power, and a ~1% drop in weight. Effective, you power/weight ratio improved a hair under 20%. That's not an insignificant number. It's also a 19% increase in torque, and likely a significant increase in torque across the board! If you measure the peak difference in the torque dip area, which is now gone, the difference may be as high as 40% more output, at that point of the RPM range.

[tracerit]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Remember, you're not just adding to the peak; you're adding to the ENTIRE powerband.

It may "only" be 27 horses, but that's an 18% increase in power, and a ~1% drop in weight. Effective, you power/weight ratio improved a hair under 20%. That's not an insignificant number. It's also a 19% increase in torque, and likely a significant increase in torque across the board! If you measure the peak difference in the torque dip area, which is now gone, the difference may be as high as 40% more output, at that point of the RPM range.

You know, saying things like this is making it miserable for me while I hold off on installing my B/250 :P Just wish warranty would cover my leak and clutch issues already haha.

I also noticed the Type B series are no longer being sold by CSG and actually says Discontinued. Are the Type A series replacing it or is Ace pretty much upgrading everything?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by tracerit

You know, saying things like this is making it miserable for me while I hold off on installing my B/250 :P Just wish warranty would cover my leak and clutch issues already haha.

I also noticed the Type B series are no longer being sold by CSG and actually says Discontinued. Are the Type A series replacing it or is Ace pretty much upgrading everything?

The B/350 is discontinued. The B/250 and B/150 are still available.

The Type B was originally designed as a "faster production" version of the Type A, but refinements to the production process as well as increased production has reduced the need for a Type B.

Eventually, the B will be discontinued completely, in lieu of the A, as production fully catches up.

[brzaapi]

Mike I couldn't agree more. In fact i am glad you did the percentage math, because now i don't have too. But the area under the curve is much nicer. Below you should see the DYNO sheet showing 3 different runs on an overlay with each other (if you don't see the dyno yet, I am working on getting it uploaded.

First, I apologize for the dyno sheet not looking as clean as I would like it. I will try and get a cleaner looking sheet. In a few days Cobb has assured me they will post my runs on their website in the dyno database. Its a nifty page on their site that lets you pick individual dyno runs and overlay them with each other. Till then, the sheet below is what we have. I will explain each run best i can.

All runs were on an AWD Mustang dyno. Cobb Plano's dyno has always read lower than any other dyno i have been on. But i got a baseline run, so we can still see the improvement with the ACE header and tune. Here we go:

First run (the lowest lines of hp and tq shown, easy to spot that torque dip even when camouflaged behind the HP graphs) was our baseline from Friday.
My car is a 15 BRZ (yes i know the sheet says 2014) manual premium, with the following mods:
- Delicious tuning Flex Fuel Kit
- Delicious tuning FF tune
- Cosworth Air filter
- HKS air duct
- Perrin inlet tube (resonator & sound tube have been removed)
- Street rims & Rubber (Kosei K4R 17x8, BFGoodrich Gcomp All seasons)

I have other mods, but they don't matter for this comparison. I was running 91 Octane showing an ethanol content of 8%. The baseline with Delicious FF tune
was 149whp and 124wtq. The numbers look low, but i assure you the car runs like any other BRZ without a header. Trust me, this is my 3rd BRZ and I have driven many others. As I said before Cobbs dyno just shows low numbers. Now i know why my EVO X sure seem to run a lot stronger than the 407whp that Cobb showed it at.

So then I installed the ACE 421 Type B Header, with the 350 OP collector (I really want to try a 150 now ), and ACE front pipe. Please note that while the
ACE parts were installed, Cobb installed my OS Giken LSD for me (I am also very happy with it, in fact the OEM torsen LSD is a waste of space in hindsight).
After finishing the install Saturday morning. I swapped over to the Delicious FF ACE map. And, back on the dyno we went.

2nd Dyno session.
The middle lines shown on the graph represent the power made with the ACE header/OP/FP on 91oct. This was the same 91 gas with ethanol at 8%. It made 162whp and 139wtq. Solid gains and though you still see the torque dip characteristic, notice the space between the baseline dip and the much more linear nature of the second dyno run. I can tell you that i don't feel any dip at all while driving. At this point we drained the 91, with a few spills. It was a little comical. And in went the E85.

3rd Dyno session.
Well it was actually reading E76.5 up to E78. So I will call it E77. Yes i have video of the run and it shows Ethanol content that was displayed on my DT app. I will try to post the video, but I suck at this shit on the forums. Anyways.
The 3rd run went great. We made 176whp and 147wtq. You know adding 27 horses to a 3800b car that already makes 500hp, is good but not that exciting. But adding 27whp to a 2700+lb car that was only showing 149whp to begin with. Believe me it makes a difference.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1457843276

This is where i tell you driving impressions. Well I am going to save that another post tomorrow. Its late, and I still have to figure out how to upload this damn dyno graph. Plus I have a Porsche club AX tomorrow morning. I would rather wait and report back after i run the car hard tomorrow. But I will say that the car feels more athletic. It revs faster and stronger. Shifts come sooner. The car is eager and response is better. An FA20 is no F22C, but after this header the FA20 is sure doing a nice impression of one. I have ran two other headers in the past on the BRZ. This is my favorite without a doubt.

EDIT - Additional notes.

Weather conditions were the same for both days. Drizzle/light rain and around 65 to 70 degrees.

Also, all 9 dyno runs (3 setups with 3 dyno pulls for each) were conducted in 4th gear. As I am learning, 5th gear pulls
may have been more appropriate for the BRZ/FRS gearing.