Element tuning Hydra EMS

[mike the snake]

I came across this while researching. This looks very interesting.

Anyone running this system? Advantages/disadvantages?

http://elementtuning.com/

[xjohnx]

@Element Tuning could probably chime in

[mike the snake]

This looks very interesting. My tuner was familiar with Hydra and has tuned with it before, and said it was a great system.

I'm fine with spending extra money if there's serious advantages to running this system.

I am hoping/planning on eventually building my car out for medium/high power with WMI and race gas settings, I hope someday to get 300-350 WHP.

The more I read about Ecutek the more I think I want to run something other than Ecutek.

Doing my homework now, trying to learn as much as I can so I can decide on a tuning option by the time all my parts and turbo kit arrive.

[coyote]

If your tuner is already familiar with it, then I reckon you'd almost recoup the extra expense in reduced tuning time.

We'd be trialling one now if we hadn't blown the budget on other stuff.

[mike the snake]

I'm still trying to figure it all out as to what to do about tuning. My tuner hasn't tuned an 86, but is competent in tuning and has done many high powered Subies.

He also hasn't tuned with Ecutek, but he HAS tuned with Hydra.

If it would be easier for him to tune my car with Hydra, I agree it might save some money in tuning time.

If I decide to have the car remotely tuned by someone familiar with our cars in conjunction with my tuner/dyno, would it be easier for my tuner to do so if he was more familiar with Hydra?

[coyote]

I'll let Phil speak for himself, but I liked what he had to say about the Hydra.

My suggestion is that you speak to your tuner as he's the key to you getting the best result.

[TheRipler]

When it comes to tuning, I've found it is generally more important to be familiar with the ECU than the specific car. That said, there is the D4-S difference with the 86. That experience comes into play as well, but it would with either platform.

I'm not sure what Ecutek has for WMI on the 86, but I do know the Hydramist is well integrated. Last time I checked it was an Aquamist system tied to the Hydra, which you really couldn't do any better for WMI.

Basically, you're better off when your tuner has fewer unknowns. Most importantly, I'd go with what the tuner you choose likes best.

[mike the snake]

He said the best option would be the Hydra and Hydramist, and that Ecutek or Open Flash Tablet would also be good, but the Hydra had the better options and fine tuning abilities. He's a Hydra dealer and has tuned with Hydra before.

Thanks for the replies.

[King Tut]

I don't really know that there are any advantages to Hydra unless you are running a full track/race car and need the full customization and elimination of the nannies programmed into the OEM ECU. Regardless of whether you go with Hydra or EcuTek, your tuner will need to learn how tune the direct injection that previous Subarus have not had.

[AMR]

Hydra screen shot:




While a full fledged stand-alone EMS with all of it’s additional features (Anti-lag, Launch control, Flat-Foot Shifting, Gear Based Boost Control, 45 psi MAP Sensor, Flex Fuel Sensor (E85) Support, Multiple Maps, Programmable Traction Control) my not be needed by everyone, finally everyone has another choice for the FRS/BRZ in terms of engine tuning. What really sets the Hydra EMS apart at it’s core is that is end user tunable so anyone with a laptop is free to tune themselves or use any tuner they like in the world. Tuned base maps for NA, E85, Turbo, race fuel, will always be free to the original owner along with technical support. Your factory ECU does not need to be flashed or even removed, just unplug the connectors, and plug the Hydra harness and EMS in.

Getting Technical with the Hydra EMS for the FRS/BRZ:

- Stand-Alone, plug and play

- Full CAN Bus support. This means your ABS, Dash, Fuel Computer, Stability Control Modes, AC, Stereo, Power Steering, all remain functional.

- Simultaneous Direct and Port Injection strategy. This is really where an exceptional tuner is going to excel because you have precise control over how much direct injection pulse width you want vs. how much port injection pulse width you need at any RPM and at any load (Boost or Vacuum). This way as you upgrade your port injectors you can still have specific control over your DI injectors. This will come in handy as you start pushing higher power levels and RPM levels where DI injection pulse width limits are very critical. I found pushing the limits here at high RPM can pay off but it’s a fine line that changes with HP levels.

- Injection Response (On-Time). Each set of injectors has their own specific injector response time maps. As you change brands of injectors, fine tuning results in smoother running.

- Injector Phasing. Direct Injection requires very specific timing of the pulse width at different RPM/Load ranges and you have complete control over this. You also have separate control over your Port Injector Phasing.
- Fuel Pump(s) Control. This comes in real handy when boosting the car since you will need a larger fuel pump and the OEM system is internally regulated. I’ve actually assigned in our base maps a 2D fuel pump controller duty map so that you don’t over power the OEM internal regulator with a the larger fuel in tank fuel pump. My personal car also runs twin pumps, one in the saddle tank, and the Hydra is triggering both pumps. Now the direct injection pump is mechanical but with the Hydra you can tune your pressure target based on RPM/Load. Hitting these targets can be adjusted through the DI Fuel Pump Pulse Width, DI Dump Valve Response Time, Dump Valve Phase Trim, and PID.

- Variable Cam Timing. The Hydra has “quad” variable cam timing control. This mean each of the intake cams and each of the exhaust cams are run in closed loop. So your variable cam timing maps are tuned with a target and the Hydra then ensures each cam hits that target independently. Advanced user control allows fine tuning of cam discrepancies an error in target control. So if you have one cam that is off 1 degree at idle that can be fine tuned and if you’re overshooting, undershooting, or too slow to respond, the closed loop rate can be fine tuned to hit the target as fast as possible without overshooting.

- Closed Loop Fuel Control: This is where something like a Hydra can make the difference between loving your highly modified daily driver or hating it. With 1032 load cell fuel targeting the Hydra can set to any AFR target at any RPM/Load. This really comes in handy when you have a heavily ported or cammed motor that may not want to idle at 14.7 AFR or when running E85 and you can run much leaner AFR targets. As load increase you can stay leaner longer or go richer sooner and making your engine run in the “sweet” spot makes all the difference in the world. You can also set your how aggressive or how slowly you want the closed loop to control the fuel changes. You can also set the TPS cut off point for closed loop fuel control. On top of all that the Hydra has Multiple AFR Target Tables so if your map is tuned so the Auxiliary maps are tuned for E85, you can run a unique AFRs better suited for E85.

- Flex Fuel Sensor Support. Want to run E85 but it’s not readily available? Flex Fuel Sensor Support allows automatic map switching in the Hydra based on ethanol content and it also has automatic fuel, boost, and ignition timing tuning based on ethanol content. Simply tune your base pump fuel map (fuel, ignition, and boost), then tune your E85 map and the Hydra will trim boost, fuel, and ignition timing based off of the ethanol content when you can’t get e85 and are forced to mix pump fuel with it. The Hydra also has additional “starting” maps for using E85 so that extra start fueling requirements can be handled independently of your pump gas starting maps.

- Boost Control: Built in boost control without the need to eliminate your purge control valve like OEM flashing. With a great blend of closed loop and manual control you can really get what you want out of the boost control system. Maximum boost sets your protection for overboost with a fuel cut, Boost RPM Targets, minimum solenoid duty based on boost target, maximum solenoid duty based on boost target, compensations trim maps for coolant temp, air temp, knock, throttle position, and gear.

- Traction Control, Programmable. This has to be the best feature honestly for a high powered FRS/BRZ. Let’s face it the OEM traction control is lame as it’s not performance based, it’s just way too intrusive. You can now set your traction control to intervene smoothly and less aggressively if you’re a racer like me through fuel cutting and ignition cutting, based on each of the 6 gears. Each gear has its own speed delta trigger for traction control along with each gear having its own setting for ignition and fuel cutting. So one may want a more aggressive traction control setup in 1st gear than they want in 3rd gear for instance.



Information taken from: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ighlight=hydra




-Robert

[TheRipler]

Doh! Thanks, AMR...

Now I want one.

[mike the snake]

I am SOOO tempted to go for this and the Hydra-mist WMI system and go for big power from the get-go.

clutch, and WMI were going to be my "stage 2" part of going FI, but things are going well, I'll have the money to go for it all by the time all my parts come in.

Who knows, I may pay the car off, gut the interior and make a true track car out of it.

The Hydra system sounds a LOT cooler than Ecutek.

[Element Tuning]

Thank you to everyone that chimed in as I wasn't aware of the thread as I was down at VIR for the ALMS race. I'll subscribe now so if anyone has a question please ask and I'll answer. I think for many professional and amateur tuners there should be some key feature descriptions I've given that make the Hydra EMS a huge asset.

I will tell you we are just about to release individual cylinder knock detection and individual knock control per cylinder (ignition trim, fuel trim, etc). This is free to all Hydra EMS 2.7 users. Just download the firmware upgrade and flash your Hydra units.

In the works drive-by-wire antilag and drive-by-wire cruise control. I'll have these long before the consumer but components of it are already in the beta software I'm testing.

I don't think many have reached the grip level yet we have on our race car but there are sections of the track where I have almost no power steering (overheats under extreme load and turns off as a failsafe). With the Hydra we can alter controls to the electric steering and the engineers are looking into ways to improve this for me. Probably only really needed for racers on slicks with downforce but just putting it out there that if you have this problem we may be able to help with a Hydra.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Thank you to everyone that chimed in as I wasn't aware of the thread as I was down at VIR for the ALMS race. I'll subscribe now so if anyone has a question please ask and I'll answer. I think for many professional and amateur tuners there should be some key feature descriptions I've given that make the Hydra EMS a huge asset.

I will tell you we are just about to release individual cylinder knock detection and individual knock control per cylinder (ignition trim, fuel trim, etc). This is free to all Hydra EMS 2.7 users. Just download the firmware upgrade and flash your Hydra units.

In the works drive-by-wire antilag and drive-by-wire cruise control. I'll have these long before the consumer but components of it are already in the beta software I'm testing.

I don't think many have reached the grip level yet we have on our race car but there are sections of the track where I have almost no power steering (overheats under extreme load and turns off as a failsafe). With the Hydra we can alter controls to the electric steering and the engineers are looking into ways to improve this for me. Probably only really needed for racers on slicks with downforce but just putting it out there that if you have this problem we may be able to help with a Hydra.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

Very cool stuff Phil. Can you talk more aobut the individual cylinder knock detection will work? I don't actually even know where the OEM Subaru knock sensor is located or how it detects knock. How will you detect which individual cylinder is knocking? Is there a knock sensor for each cylinder?