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Old 07-11-2011, 12:39 AM   #1
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Official for scion...

Don't know if anyone else has checked this out, but I figure I'm just restating what everyone already knows. The FT-86 is officially on the US Scion's website under concept vehicles listed as the FR-S. It is still no where to be seen on the US Toyota website; in fact Toyota seems to be more focused on the prius line than a sports car judging from their website. So I guess all of us in denial about it being a scion can either put a gun to our head and end the pain, or suck it up go through life driving a scion...

On a side note, I couldn't find anything on the US Subaru site. If they plan on releasing the car in under a year I would've figured there would at least be a concept, unless that means they're not releasing it here in the US/N. America.

Any thoughts/new info/reason to live (lol)?

[Link to Scion FR-S]
http://www.scion.com/#/concept-cars/frs
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Old 07-11-2011, 04:48 AM   #2
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Any thoughts/new info/reason to live (lol)?

[Link to Scion FR-S]
http://www.scion.com/#/concept-cars/frs
Yes. The whole scion thing was a very expensive joke played on idiots who care more about what others think than the car. Toyota thought it would be a good PR move to cull the idiots.
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Old 07-11-2011, 08:22 AM   #3
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Subaru hasn't really released the concept but they intend on releasing the car next year either way... they'll probably release a concept model @ Tokyo
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Old 07-11-2011, 08:41 AM   #4
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Hopefully Subaru releases the production model instead of just a concept.
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Old 07-11-2011, 08:54 AM   #5
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^ I have to agree... if they are targeting 1Q2012 they are more likely to show off a production model at the end of this year. There's no sense in showing a concept car that close to release, unless maybe it's a STI model planned for later release, but that could kill initial sales.
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:00 AM   #6
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since they're basically the same car (with minor differences like bumpers, headlights & Taillights, interior) It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Subaru to pump out concepts at the same time Toyota is. Just like how it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to test both a Subaru version and a Toyota version. You test one generic prototype that could fit under either marque in the prototype phase to keep people confused as to which version it is. Then, you make the minor cosmetic changes for the release of the production versions.
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:17 AM   #7
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since they're basically the same car (with minor differences like bumpers, headlights & Taillights, interior) It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Subaru to pump out concepts at the same time Toyota is. Just like how it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to test both a Subaru version and a Toyota version. You test one generic prototype that could fit under either marque in the prototype phase to keep people confused as to which version it is. Then, you make the minor cosmetic changes for the release of the production versions.
^^That..

*Assumption below..

Subaru really doesn't know how they are going to release the car as of yet. They are probably discussing options, moon roofs, group-n bushings in the suspension, bi-xenon, led lights, wheel/tires, aluminum control arms and links. They have to do things accordingly to allow it to be priced higher than the Scion I would assume, for the sake of not competing in price.

If both are priced the same within $1k a lot of brand nazis with go with the Subaru regardless if it weighed 100# more, I know a few hand full of people that would.
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:39 AM   #8
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They have to do things accordingly to allow it to be priced higher than the Scion I would assume, for the sake of not competing in price.

If both are priced the same within $1k a lot of brand nazis with go with the Subaru regardless if it weighed 100# more, I know a few hand full of people that would.
why? the pontiac vibe and toyota matrix coexisted. both were similarly priced. it makes absolutely NO business sense to sell the car at a higher price than it needs. you can add features as packages but the base price will be as low as you can go for marketing reasons.

i still contend that they will differ only in styling and minute features. like the DSMs of yore, its up to the individual companies to style and market the car without expressly competing with each other. people that think the subaru version may have a turbo STI model to "one up" the toyota version are just hoping and praying. there very well could be agreements that neither company come out with a "better" version of the other car so as not to compete with each other. things like suspension tuning, sure. STI package can have better suspension and brakes. something as significant as a turbo engine? now that's stretching it... would you, as toyota, allow subaru to one up you on a joint venture? its not as if toyota is buying a subaru developed chassis. its a joint venture. you cant have one version better than the other. it just doesnt work like that.

look at the DSM cars and that's what you're gonna get. virtual twins underneath with unique, company styling marketed in their own way. toyota will go with the "hey we're sporty" angle while subaru will go with the "cheap sports car, we can do RWD too!" angle...
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:55 AM   #9
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I'll have the Scion version regardless. Just wish it had a Scion motor in it instead. If the car doesn't perform, then I'll do a 240sx with an LS1 swap in it.
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:01 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by PAImportTuner View Post
^^That..

*Assumption below..

Subaru really doesn't know how they are going to release the car as of yet. They are probably discussing options, moon roofs, group-n bushings in the suspension, bi-xenon, led lights, wheel/tires, aluminum control arms and links. They have to do things accordingly to allow it to be priced higher than the Scion I would assume, for the sake of not competing in price.

If both are priced the same within $1k a lot of brand nazis with go with the Subaru regardless if it weighed 100# more, I know a few hand full of people that would.
I dont think moonroof will be an option on either car
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:06 PM   #11
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^ I really want a sunroof/moonroof again but agree, I don't think the roof lines allow for one. Subie is the more likely of the two to deviate from those lines though, imo.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:18 PM   #12
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My one criteria for a proper car (aside from the rear wheels being powered) is a sunroof. I don't need any other options. I don't even care if its a manual sunroof like my m2 had. Oh well. Let's think of it as $1000 and 100 pounds of high up weight being saved
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:55 PM   #13
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why? the pontiac vibe and toyota matrix coexisted. both were similarly priced. it makes absolutely NO business sense to sell the car at a higher price than it needs. you can add features as packages but the base price will be as low as you can go for marketing reasons.

i still contend that they will differ only in styling and minute features. like the DSMs of yore, its up to the individual companies to style and market the car without expressly competing with each other. people that think the subaru version may have a turbo STI model to "one up" the toyota version are just hoping and praying. there very well could be agreements that neither company come out with a "better" version of the other car so as not to compete with each other. things like suspension tuning, sure. STI package can have better suspension and brakes. something as significant as a turbo engine? now that's stretching it... would you, as toyota, allow subaru to one up you on a joint venture? its not as if toyota is buying a subaru developed chassis. its a joint venture. you cant have one version better than the other. it just doesnt work like that.

look at the DSM cars and that's what you're gonna get. virtual twins underneath with unique, company styling marketed in their own way. toyota will go with the "hey we're sporty" angle while subaru will go with the "cheap sports car, we can do RWD too!" angle...

Matrix > Vibe only thing that sold the Vibe was "American" brand and 100k warranty.. Look where the company is now.

STI spelled backwards is force induction. $6+k premium will need to have more power to survive in the Subaru world, I can give 2 shits about Toyota world. If there is an agreement, which I feel there is because of this model deviating from Subaru's model, I see Subaru doing poorly. NASIOC and other Subaru sites already opened an ass whooping for no AWD or standard turbo, but to release a STI model without AWD let alone FI is blasphemous. Did you see how consumers responded to the 08' WRX LMAO, they quickly changed it a year later for bigger turbo(40hp) and better handling and even that wasn't good enough so then came STI flares, price basically stayed the same. That's what happens when Toyota adds their insight on looks and Suby guys say no..

DSM/DSi is a bad comparison it was over 20 years ago and they were turbo. If they keep the cars around same specs and pricing and no 1up'n, Scion will have a rude awakening, Plymouth Laser and Eagle Talons didn't do too well.

Majority of consumers would choose today the following.
-Focus RS, MazdaSpeed 3, or C30
Mazda lighter, faster, same $$
-Fiesta or Mazda 2
Mazda. brand >
-Fiesta ST or Mazda 2(n/a)
Fiesta. turbo > n/a
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:52 PM   #14
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Ok. This will probably wind people up, but im going to play devils advocate...

Does it make sense for Subaru to release their own version of this car?

Its been said they would never have gone alone on this project, so would it be better financially to just do the joint venture as providing the bits they are for Toyota and creaming off some of the profits rather than spending on revising bumpers etc for little change?

Ok so a turbo version *if it ever happened* may yield more $$ for them, but I just dont see the point of a Subaru version with a different badge.
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