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Old 10-11-2021, 06:24 AM   #1177
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Just saw you aren't from AUS... Don't know how you'll go with shipping costs for that
There's a semi-local to me distributor in the US called CounterSpace Garage (CSG) where I can get a kit from. Ends up being cheaper for me since they can order the kits in bulk from Harrop. I believe Harrop also has a foot in the US now (I think?), but I don't know how that affects prices of their stuff.
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:47 AM   #1178
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Hello! I'm in the same boat as you, waiting for Harrop to start selling kits again. I have a good set of exhaust pipes, e85, and an oil cooler, and I was told by Zach from CSG (my tuner) I could easily make ~320 from the stock pulley, and that's just the beginning. Start stepping down sizes from there for more power. From my research on the kit, and from others in this forum, my confidence in the reliability of this kit is fairly high, especially if you're not running too small of a pulley.

Good luck with your research! I am after reliability over maximum power, on a stock engine. I am just trying to cross reference what everyone is saying...
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Old 10-11-2021, 09:11 AM   #1179
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Im in Brisbane, and had a Harrop now for over 5 years.
Started with a 90mm pulley, headers, bigger single exhaust and 98ron.
About 222hp at the wheels on 98ron.
I uprated the radiator and added an oil cooler. Ran it like that for 3 years, with %100 reliability.
About 2 years ago went the whole hog with the 65mm pulley, flex fuel, motec and a built motor.
About 346 hp at the wheels on E85.
Great fun.... but huge costs.
Been very reliable so far (after I solved the belt issues with the smaller pulley).

You really don't need to put vents in the bonnet... the car spends a lot of time in hot weather doing this with no dramas temperature wise:

Thank you for your comments. I am in Brisbane too but I guess with the kind of driving you do you are on the other side of Willow bank....
It looks like you are having a pretty good experience with this kit. But what you are describing is also what scares me going down that path to be honest. In NA form you slap a header, a tune and e85 and it looks like you are pretty much done. FI builds seem to ALWAYS turn into a bottom less money pit...
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Old 10-11-2021, 09:48 AM   #1180
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222whp sounds a little underwhelming... Harrop claim 235kw crank with headers on 98 so 95hp loss seems a lot.

I would have expected 280 wheel on 98 and 320 on e85, then 350+ when you started upgrading the pulley and other components based on HARROPs info and in comparison to other kits
I think your expectations might be a little optimistic....280/320 at the wheels on 98/E85 with a standard pulley?

Remember its the torque increase that has the most driving impact, so even the basic Harrop is not at all underwhelming on the road.

If you're chasing huge (and potentially unreliable) dyno numbers, then I'd go down the turbo path instead.
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Old 10-11-2021, 09:58 AM   #1181
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Thank you for your comments. I am in Brisbane too but I guess with the kind of driving you do you are on the other side of Willow bank....
It looks like you are having a pretty good experience with this kit. But what you are describing is also what scares me going down that path to be honest. In NA form you slap a header, a tune and e85 and it looks like you are pretty much done. FI builds seem to ALWAYS turn into a bottom less money pit...
Yeah its a great kit, I'm very happy with it.
I really think the Harrop with the near standard pulley is actually the power/money/reliability sweet spot....plenty of power to be fun, but not so much as to be expensive to run.
But you are right, as soon as you start chasing more power the $ per HP ratio goes crazy.
Ive also pulled as much weight out of the car as I can (which is also expensive) but then you end up adding weight with upgrades to deal with the added power/performance.
If you ever want to catch up and have a chat, give me a yell.
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Old 10-11-2021, 05:16 PM   #1182
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I think your expectations might be a little optimistic....280/320 at the wheels on 98/E85 with a standard pulley?

Remember its the torque increase that has the most driving impact, so even the basic Harrop is not at all underwhelming on the road.

If you're chasing huge (and potentially unreliable) dyno numbers, then I'd go down the turbo path instead.
The Harrop kit isn’t cheap, and as I said my expectations are based off the figures they claim and compared to other kits. Don’t know why they would claim 225kw (crank) for their carb tune, SC kit on 98 with stock exhaust when the reality is 160kw at the wheels with headers? Obviously it’s crank vs wheel and different dynos but that’s a huge difference. If I paid $12K aud for their kit that claims 250kw (headers and e85 included) and the reality was I was making 260-270 hp I’d want my money back

The small Sprintex SC kit is considered fairly underpowered yet 260-300 wheel seems to be what I’ve seen people getting stock with e85, and the kits much cheaper.
Vortech SC gets around 320 wheel on stock with e85, and from some research 300-350 seems to be what most people claim wth the Eldebrock SC kit- stock motor/ pulley with e85.

I’m not chasing huge numbers but I was never given the indication that you had to go all out just to make 290-300.

Last edited by Sam86; 10-11-2021 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:56 PM   #1183
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Yeah its a great kit, I'm very happy with it.
I really think the Harrop with the near standard pulley is actually the power/money/reliability sweet spot....plenty of power to be fun, but not so much as to be expensive to run.
But you are right, as soon as you start chasing more power the $ per HP ratio goes crazy.
Ive also pulled as much weight out of the car as I can (which is also expensive) but then you end up adding weight with upgrades to deal with the added power/performance.
If you ever want to catch up and have a chat, give me a yell.

Thank you for the offer, I'll definitely take you up on it and pick your brain once I am ready to make the jump.
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Old 10-11-2021, 09:07 PM   #1184
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The Harrop kit isn’t cheap, and as I said my expectations are based off the figures they claim and compared to other kits. Don’t know why they would claim 225kw (crank) for their carb tune, SC kit on 98 with stock exhaust when the reality is 160kw at the wheels with headers? Obviously it’s crank vs wheel and different dynos but that’s a huge difference. If I paid $12K aud for their kit that claims 250kw (headers and e85 included) and the reality was I was making 260-270 hp I’d want my money back

The small Sprintex SC kit is considered fairly underpowered yet 260-300 wheel seems to be what I’ve seen people getting stock with e85, and the kits much cheaper.
Vortech SC gets around 320 wheel on stock with e85, and from some research 300-350 seems to be what most people claim wth the Eldebrock SC kit- stock motor/ pulley with e85.

I’m not chasing huge numbers but I was never given the indication that you had to go all out just to make 290-300.
I haven't seen that claim of 225kw crank, I've only seen the dyno they issued showing 182kw at the wheels (98).
The 166kw I was originally getting, was within a realistic ball park given a significantly (hotter) ambient test temp , a different dyno and a reasonably conservative tune.

The other thing is the internet.... "claims" vs reliability vs drivability vs reality...
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Old 10-11-2021, 11:00 PM   #1185
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I haven't seen that claim of 225kw crank, I've only seen the dyno they issued showing 182kw at the wheels (98).
The 166kw I was originally getting, was within a realistic ball park given a significantly (hotter) ambient test temp , a different dyno and a reasonably conservative tune.

The other thing is the internet.... "claims" vs reliability vs drivability vs reality...
Here you go, straight from Harrops website.
That 225kw 318nm torque crank is off the assumption you are completely stock with only the SC and tune.

https://www.harrop.com.au/shop/index...product_id=923
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Old 10-12-2021, 12:10 AM   #1186
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Here you go, straight from Harrops website.
That 225kw 318nm torque crank is off the assumption you are completely stock with only the SC and tune.

https://www.harrop.com.au/shop/index...product_id=923
Actually, they also provide a hub dyno chart on their website that aligns to the numbers reported by grumpysnapper (182KW / 266nm):

https://www.harrop.com.au/shop/tvs13...-86-subaru-brz
https://www.harrop.com.au/shop/image...-1000x1000.jpg
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Old 10-12-2021, 12:44 AM   #1187
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222whp sounds a little underwhelming... Harrop claim 235kw crank with headers on 98 so 95hp loss seems a lot.

I would have expected 280 wheel on 98 and 320 on e85, then 350+ when you started upgrading the pulley and other components based on HARROPs info and in comparison to other kits
He probably meant kW. The other options are conservative tune and hot weather and high humidity on a dyno that reads low. The other possibility post engine build is low compression. But you are right that something is off.
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Old 10-12-2021, 03:24 AM   #1188
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Actually, they also provide a hub dyno chart on their website that aligns to the numbers reported by grumpysnapper (182KW / 266nm):

https://www.harrop.com.au/shop/tvs13...-86-subaru-brz
https://www.harrop.com.au/shop/image...-1000x1000.jpg
That hub dyno is with stock headers, I believe grumpy said he had aftermarket headers with a 90mm pulley (assuming that pulley is an upgrade over stock since he mentioned it) so his should be reading much higher.

Maybe he has catted equal length headers and was running the fully emission compliant tune??? If that was the case then maybe I could understand. @grumpysnapper what headers were you using?
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Old 10-12-2021, 07:14 AM   #1189
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That hub dyno is with stock headers, I believe grumpy said he had aftermarket headers with a 90mm pulley (assuming that pulley is an upgrade over stock since he mentioned it) so his should be reading much higher.

Maybe he has catted equal length headers and was running the fully emission compliant tune??? If that was the case then maybe I could understand. @grumpysnapper what headers were you using?
ACE Club Sport 400 4-2-1 Headers, with a cat, on the original (brand new) standard motor, using ECUTEK.

90mm on 98ron. (closer to 95ron USA)

Dyno each time with high humidity/high temps, a requested conservative tune and cat fitted. 3 different tuners over 2 years on the same (roller) dyno, with that spec.

But furthering my mistrust of dyno numbers, it also allegedly made 428Nm of torque...
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Old 10-12-2021, 08:06 AM   #1190
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The Harrop kit isnít cheap, and as I said my expectations are based off the figures they claim and compared to other kits. Donít know why they would claim 225kw (crank) for their carb tune, SC kit on 98 with stock exhaust when the reality is 160kw at the wheels with headers? Obviously itís crank vs wheel and different dynos but thatís a huge difference. If I paid $12K aud for their kit that claims 250kw (headers and e85 included) and the reality was I was making 260-270 hp Iíd want my money back

The small Sprintex SC kit is considered fairly underpowered yet 260-300 wheel seems to be what Iíve seen people getting stock with e85, and the kits much cheaper.
Vortech SC gets around 320 wheel on stock with e85, and from some research 300-350 seems to be what most people claim wth the Eldebrock SC kit- stock motor/ pulley with e85.

Iím not chasing huge numbers but I was never given the indication that you had to go all out just to make 290-300.
It's again a power view not a torque view. NA with any mods will not give you much more torque, just eliminate the dip.

A PD SC will give you that and from low revs not centrifugal SC either.. so you need to think differently on driveability than top line power which is academic

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